Maryanne Katsidis is a visionary transformation expert with over 30 years of experience guiding organizations to unlock their highest potential. Drawing on a rich career across telecommunications, not-for-profits, education, and entrepreneurship, Maryanne blends strategic insight with holistic healing practices to create lasting, impactful change.

A heart-led entrepreneur and certified Kinesiologist, Maryanne works closely with CEOs, entrepreneurs, and leadership teams to uncover hidden challenges, align energies, and build thriving, purpose-driven cultures. Her unique approach merges business strategy with energetic wisdom, empowering leaders to create environments where individuals and teams can thrive, innovate, and grow.

Have you ever heard about combining a strategic systems approach with deep energetic healing and alignment in one delicious package? You're about to hear the how and why from our next guest.

Maryanne shares:

• a near-death experience and how this acted to alchemise Maryanne's resistance to past 'nudges' about sharing the fullness of the [strategy + karmic clearing] magick she brings to the table for corporations
• Maryanne's lived experience as a projector riding the waves of the entrepreneurial experience and the isolation that can be part of the "I'm going first" paradigm-builders
• the shift from entrepreneur identity to that of a CEO, and where many visionary leaders stifle their growth by missing the foundational pieces of this shift
• the depth of work and transformation it truly takes to own the value of your full, unapologetic self-expression and the strength and groundedness that being fully committed, Viking style, to delivering a legacy brings

Find Maryanne, and all of her offerings, including the Heart Led Visionaries and Heart Led Retreat space at https://www.maryannekatsidis.com/

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TRANSCRIPT - S5E10 Karmic Cleanup: Corporate Style with Maryanne Katsidis

Kylie Patchett: [00:00:00] when I'm talking to, um, organizations about. Karmic consciousness and what that means, the easiest way for me to explain that is it like humans, like us, we have a consciousness, right?

But the, but organizations have a consciousness as well. 

Welcome to the wild and finally fucking free podcast show. This is a space where truth talking gets real behind the scenes. Grit of the future humans is laid bare, and we are celebrating and sharing the real world stories of change agents, neuro sparkly people, the witchy wild women, the deep feelers, the unapologetic senses, the status quo challenges, and the huge hearted healers and helpers.

And guiding you through this wild ride of entrepreneurship and full heart led contribution to the world is me, your host, Kylie Patchett, aka KP. I am a proudly NeuroSparkly, natural born status quo challenger, and I thrive on helping disruptors, rebels and revolutionaries find their voices, amplify their message into the world, and harness their raw potential.

Alchemise it into unleashing your full potency. Not only will I be sharing the behind the scenes of some of the most amazing, most status quo challenging thought leaders, I'll also be lifting the veil behind my own business. In 2024, I 18x'd my monthly income. Still blows my mind to say that. And this year I am leaning into how joyful and fun it would be to shift from six figures to seven figures in a quantum shifting year, all through leading from my full unapologetic voice, my unleashed potency, and with my big wildly lit up heart leading the way.

Every single step of the way. [00:02:00] So together with my guests, I am going to be sharing the mess and the magic. Spilling the tea on the identity shifts behind stepping into thought leadership. Breaking the ties that bind us.

Unlearning old patterns and reweaving brand new ways of living, loving, learning, and leading. We're here to break boundaries, reimagine what's possible, all while collapsing timelines and leading with joy, love, and our fiercest wild woman selves. This is not just a podcast. It is a rebellion. It is a revolution.

It is an invitation to join the Mad Hatter's collective movement. And by Mad Hatters I mean all the colourful, creative, gorgeous, world changing, out of the box humans out there. If you've ever longed to be wild and finally fucking free, this is your sign to lean in. Let's get started.

Hello, everybody. Welcome to another edition of the podcast. Oh, I feel so delicious because I have not recorded an episode for so long. So I'm so excited to be back in the chair. And today I have the beautiful Marianne Katsidas with me. Hello, Marianne. How are you? Hello, beautiful. I'm very well. I'm excited to, um, to chat with you today.

Oh, so cool. I do know why you actually, you like have such a beautiful, calming. Um, coming impact on my nervous system because my entire, like, well, my step brothers and sisters are from Adelaide. And so when I hear the Adelaide accent, I'm like, I'm doing a little dance for those of you not, not listening, not watching the video.

Um, so welcome, welcome, welcome for those who don't already know you and your work in the world. Could you introduce your beautiful self? Yes, I can. I am a business advisor. That's the. You know, the mainstream name for what I do, but I work with CEOs and their organizations [00:04:00] and what I, what I do with them is I work on improving their employee engagement and their culture.

And, and, uh, the outcome is for greater innovation, but in order to. Um, get to that, we have to do some karmic cleanup, which is very new. Um, it is something that is not being offered out there, which I, I love that. Um, that was kind of work carved out for me. And so, um, it is about, uh, harmonizing the trauma that people are bringing into the workplace and making sure everyone is working from the highest level of integrity.

And, um, it is about, uh, communicating in a way that's supportive. And because I work with medium and large organizations, um, you know, when you look at the world as it is, things are a bit messy and a lot of organizations have a lot of, um, a broken parts, let's say. And so it is, um, it is work that I'm very passionate about and I love that I get to do that cleanup.

I've always kind of been in that. Sort of mode. I was, I, I think I was even like that as a kid, to be honest. It was the fixer of the things. And so, um, find the broken bits and men . Yeah. Yeah. So I go into organizations to, um, to work with the CEO first. So I'll work in it with, um, the CEO for six months.

Mm-hmm . And then I start working with the executive leadership teams and then work my way down so everyone is in harmony, which is juicy and delicious and yeah, it's good. Yes. I, you know, the thing that is coming into my field, I'm hearing this voice go, the fish rots from the head down, which is an awful way of saying, if the leaders are not connected to heart and haven't done the cleanup of anything that they're bringing in, that's not, you know, their truth and authenticity, then unfortunately that does impact.

The leadership team and therefore the whole organization. So yay for healing the fish at the head. Well, [00:06:00] a lot of organizations have, uh, like a lot of CEOs will put, will hire people, consultants and, and different, um, leadership experts to come in and work with their leadership teams and, and go downwards, but it's actually.

The CEO who needs that container first, and they, they need to be on board. And sometimes it's, you know, what's really tricky is a lot of CEOs for the, for the really large organizations, it's not their business. They've been placed there. So it's not their passion. And this is where sometimes things can get a little bit sticky because, you know, there are very honest conversations that we have, and it might be that they're the wrong CEO.

And that, that is a part of what. Um, why that that container happens first, because we really need to deep dive in and they need to be leading by example, it's all well and good, the leadership teams leading by example, but if the CEO still not communicating or being vulnerable, or showcasing what's on their heart and allowing themselves to connect deeply, then, you know, everything sort of the wheels eventually fall off, you might gain some initial momentum, but after a little while, Um, you know, those programs start to fall away and it feels like a bit of a waste of time.

Yeah. And then you get into that dangerous territory where we're giving lip service to this, but it's not actually happening, which is like, that's even worse for culture, right? It's like, yeah, you say you value this, but actually your actions are telling me something completely different. Um, I love that you use the word culture.

And I know that like workplace culture, you know, that's been kind of in our awareness field for ages, but I'm interested when you use the word culture, like, could you. Wrap some language around what that means for an organization, and particularly that small to medium kind of space and like. What can bloody happen when it like, when you actually said before broken parts and I heard broken hearts in organizations and I'm like, [00:08:00] yeah, same, same, it is, it is, it's, it, that's exactly what it is though.

It is broken hearts that they are broken hearted, but it is. So when I, when I think about culture, um, I mean, there, there are so many areas where things fall down something that I posted about, I think it was yesterday or the day before was around. Um, the disappointment and the distrust that happens right from the onboarding process.

So when, when someone gets hired, right, um, usually people are hiring from a reactive place. It's not very proactive and so they're just trying to get bums on seats. But if you don't induct someone gently, compassionately. Um, supportively, then the, they start to feel insecure. There's a, there's a disconnection.

They feel, um, a distrust. They, it almost feels like, not that they're being bamboozled, but it just feels very overwhelming. And it's a really hard, it, once someone is already in that energy, it's really hard to transform them back out of that place. And so for me. That, just that sort of first piece is sort of sets the tone for what's going to happen.

And so that you are the, the, the organization is always on the back foot as a result of that, so that, that impacts culture and, um, and you're fighting fires, like, yeah. That all of that is reactive. Like every single bit of what you just said is like, oh shit, all of it broken it from the beginning and now we're just reacting to control.

Sure. Yeah, for sure. And then there's the internal processes that undermine all the things. And then you've got people who are, um, because they don't trust that they're being supported, they start acting out. And so it's a dog eat dog, kill or be killed. Um, and so this is where the, the [00:10:00] acknowledging that people are bringing trauma into their workplace, we've all got different trauma here and then it doesn't have to necessarily be anything huge, but.

Just we've all got wounds and so those wounds when we're feeling fearful and when we feel distrust what happens is those wounds activate because you're getting triggered left and right and so people are acting out from that place and so that disruption in culture, that means everyone is disconnected from each other.

No one is willing to trust that they're safe to speak their truth. And then when you've got, um, managers who are threatened by people underneath them being more innovative and, and what, what's really like something new that I've really been thinking a lot about is, um, the different types of human design profiles, right?

So I'm a projector. I have always been very innovative. I am a, I see things other people don't see. And so, but when I was working as an employee in a large organization, my managers felt, not all of them, but some of them felt challenged by me. Their ego felt challenged by me, but I wasn't doing it to upset them.

It was, I could just see a better way. And so that, that I would get, um, blocked. And so that also has an impact on culture as well, because people don't understand that there is an opportunity for you to. You know, utilize people's strengths in that way for things to accelerate, but because top down, everyone is worried about losing their job or, you know, what, what might happen.

Um, yeah, I think things can get very, very challenging and I feel like the majority of organizations, like I'd say 95 percent of organizations would be operating like that. Yeah. Oh, I'm just thinking like, as you're talking of like, Literally hundreds of examples of my corporate, like I've changed [00:12:00] careers, like 17 times.

So, and, you know, going back to what you said about onboarding processes, like I've been in so many different, like interviews for leadership positions, whether the position is being sold as this particular thing. And then you get inside the system that, you know, the culture and the actual day to day and you're like.

That was never going to be, that's what you want to be able to offer and provide, but actually we're in a burning building at the moment. Everybody's fighting for their lives. And when you're talking about trauma, like I'm just thinking about so many lunchroom conversations I've heard where someone's trauma is then bonding with other people's traumas and we're all in our trauma and we're all in this rebellious teenage and trying to manage teams that have been created.

Like I've always found myself in kind of that like middle management thing, like, you know, not right at the top of the tree or not recently, but not, you know, so managing a group of people, but you can only operate within the culture that's already been set. Otherwise you're labeled as a troublemaker.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. But, but also what, um, What I think, you know, when I said 95 percent of organizations, that's probably being quite generous. Actually, I think it's probably a lot less than that, but I, I. It's disheartening because people gen, like generally want to contribute. They want to work for an organization where they're having an impact, a really positive impact as well.

And so you, in the mix of all of these things, you've got, you know, these big hearted people who are being suppressed, squashed, um, shut down, fired even. And it's disappointing, but when you, when you have, um, These things where you're bringing experts into to create, you know, uh, you know, to teach about leadership styles and how to communicate.

That's all fine, but practically no one's holding them accountable. Where, when I work with organizations, [00:14:00] I am in there doing a full assessment and there is no stone left unturned. I am across everyone in that organization. So I know. energetically and physically from being there where the gaps are. And so you can't hide.

And you know, with my Greek Viking background, I, you know, you can't trick a trickster, you know, like I can see it. I can see, I can see all of it. And it is, um, it is, it takes time. It's not like a, there's no, you know, quick. Bullet for resolving these things. Yeah, it's, it's, it's 12 to 24 months that kind of work, but it requires everyone being on board and, um, everyone feeling safe first.

If they don't feel safe, everything just, you know, everything just falls apart. Yeah. You've lost the, and like, you know, the 12 to 24 months, like when you're talking about like the leadership consultant end of things, I used to work as one of those and you'd go in and I'm like, I'm literally just putting a bandaid on a bleeding lady, like an artery that's like spurting.

Yeah. And that is so disempowering as someone who comes in with a skillset that can actually, because there's all that stuff under the surface that you're, you know, like, and so where I want to go to next is like, okay, there's this like strategy piece, but I want to know how and And where the comic, like, cleanup comes, like, came in and how you were kind of, because I imagine you're like, I can see also, like, I'm seeing you, like, I don't want to get my eyeballs on you.

And I know that strategy is only going to fix, you know, like, fixing the culture is one thing. All of that thing is beautiful. But if you're not cleaning up under the surface. Yeah. Not really going to make. As big a change as what it could be. So how, how did like, I, and I'm so interested in how you even introduce this in a corporate conversation, anyway, start with how did the climate cleaning?

I, I mean, I, I feel like all of my work has all of my, um, like [00:16:00] my career history and everything has always led to this, right. It is. Like a full circle now everything is has come together because I started in working for a large corporate and was a manager there and when I moved into marketing and then after that I Studied kinesiology and then I became a kinesiologist so I did that for eight and a half years and burnt myself out because I was treating my my kinesiology business like a corporate business, which is incorrect and very wrong.

And, you know, I was working eight hours a day, six days a week as a therapist, which is ridiculous. You know, even four days is too much. Actually, it's a projector far out. Oh yeah. Burnout big time. And a lot of resentment by the end. I didn't want to help anybody else, but I felt, um, a lot of around not being of service.

And so I, um, I took a little break. I was on a, I was seconded to a role, um, for a virtual reality company, if you can believe, which was so random, but I, I was in a strategy role there. And then I remembered, Oh, I really love this part of this work. And then COVID kicked in and I was living in Melbourne at the time.

And, um, uh, I thought, well, I've got plenty of time. I'm going to, I'm going to, I was made, um, that's the comment finished. And so I decided to start a marketing business. And so, um, I introduced all the strategy and, you know, just play to my strengths, but at, um, not last year, the year before in October, I had a near death experience and yeah, yeah, that was fun.

And that kind of, yes, it was a nice big. You know, awakening, it was a, it was a huge awakening, like major transformation. And over the course of two months, I just felt like something, and I could have had, I had felt it building through the year, but I just knew [00:18:00] something had to change. And just, I just, uh, had a conversation with spirit around, okay, just show me what you want me to do.

I don't, I don't even care what it is old old dedicate. this, no matter how hard I feel that it is, I'm making that commitment. And you know, when you ask those kinds of questions, you certainly get the answer. And my whole world turned upside down. So it was like, I had to start my business all over again because their marketing and strategy was, that was not the business anymore.

And that was terrifying to say the least. What was also terrifying was the understanding about how. Um, bringing in the, the, uh, the area around karmic activity that doesn't exist. And so when you're a changemaker, when you're innovating and you don't have anyone to follow, you're putting yourself out there talking in language, in an environment where people don't even meditate for the most part, let alone think apart.

karmic consciousness, karmic activity in, in business that, um, yeah, it was, it was terrifying for me, but it is equally terrifying for, um, the people who are starting to learn that language. And so I have made a commitment and a challenge myself to talk that language on places like LinkedIn, for example, which is very.

Yeah. Superficial, very. Buttoned up. Yes, very buttoned up, very straight. And then you've got me in there. I'm using imagery that is a bit more provoking. Um, I'm using language that they haven't heard of before. But I, in order to move the needle. I can't keep coddling and, and participating in the current language.

You can't change from that place. No, well you can't disrupt, yeah. You're not [00:20:00] introducing new pathways if you're playing in the system that created the old ones. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And so, um, it makes people uncomfortable, but I've just leaned into it now and. And one of the reasons I have been able to lean into it is because of the work you and I did with, um, through the challenge.

Right? So right before the challenge, I kind of, I had updated my website. I'd worked out, you know, the pathway I'd seen my runway. So I knew exactly what was, what I'm scheduled to do, all of the things, but doing it and implementing, I was stuck. And there were still parts of me hiding, right? And all of this is connected because when I saw your, um, challenge come up, I was like, I have to do this.

I can't hide and be a disruptor. And so as a result of that, you know, that work, I think it was, was five days, wasn't it? Yeah. No, it was. What was it? Seven days? 10 days I think. Oh, 10 days. Yeah, it was 10 days. 10 days in November. And I'm like, 10 days. We're both talking like, it was about 3000 years ago and I'm like, oh no.

Oh my God. That's like two and a half months ago. , but every day like, like five decades. But anyways, every day feels like a thousand years. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that 10 days I. I didn't do anything else other than be you on fire and yeah, but, but I, it was, I felt like I had called it in. And so whatever you asked during that challenge, I, I dedicated that full 10 days to.

Holding my own feet to the fire with it. And so then I was able to reinforce why I need to continue to talk in that language. And so when I am talking to CEOs and when I'm talking to, um, organizations about. Karmic consciousness and what that means, the easiest way for me to explain that is it [00:22:00] like humans, like us, we have a consciousness, right?

But the, but organizations have a consciousness as well. Whether you're an entrepreneur or a large organization, it doesn't really matter that there is a consciousness attached to what you're creating. And so. With organizations, uh, the con that the karmic activity happens, not just with the people in the workplace as it is, but also the people who have left their imprint there who've been there before.

And so it is challenging, you know, it is not for the faint hearted, but this is what I've been asked to do. And it feels really lonely. I have to say a lot of the time, but talking to people like yourself, participating and having coaching with people with your vision and your inspiration who get it makes it less, you know, less lonely because I don't feel like an alien when I'm in containers like that.

Yeah. But if you, um, not engaged in that way and you're Trying to be a disruptor you can feel a bit heartbroken because you're not for the mass, you know, and so And you're like, you're at the leading edge of change where like, you know, it, it was not unusual to be thought an idiot if you thought that the world was round.

Like, I always give that example, it's like, like just because we're introducing new stuff that's never been done before does not mean it's incorrect or wrong or the wrong pathway. But because we're on the leading edge of change and we're going first, it, and I talk about this all the time. It's like. We need to be in communities with normalizing disruption.

Like actually saying, and I think I came to this realization during scene, like, I used to think business was an active rebellion, like fighting against what's already been created. And now I actually have a deeper understanding. That's an active love inviting to a new paradigm. It's not about fighting against the old, because that [00:24:00] is actually where like the systems that are broken want us to be in this reactive place where we're never going to break down the enormous system that's been built up over decades and centuries and whatever.

But if we can. Hold the pose of someone who is a paradigm shifter and go first and also be in community because as you say, like isolating as fuck, like, you know, you, you want to have all your shit come to the surface and like, you know, do something new. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really interested when you have these conversations about like how readily understood and accepted is the concept that an organization has its own consciousness.

Um, right now it is, it is not readily accepted. I, I'm, I have a lot of eyes on me. So people are curious, but they're scared still. They're very scared. They don't want to open that door because they, I think, um, on some level, whether it's conscious or subconscious, they understand if they open that door, they have to open that door for themselves.

And a lot, a lot of people are still not willing to do the internal work. And this is where the problem is. And this is, but this is what's, what's causing the chaos. This is what's causing all the disruption. And, but that's okay. Because I'm not in a hurry. Luckily for me, because I choose to work with large organizations, I can't, I can't work with all of them all at once.

That's too hard, but I'm. I, I am here for the long game, right? So what, what, what it feels like now feels like it's a bit ahead of its time, but that's fine because the scales are going to tip eventually, but all of my systems, all of my work, it's all, it's already, and I, and now I'm just, I'm, I'm at that point where I can just enjoy.

Speaking my truth, pushing some boundaries, um, and, and [00:26:00] really stepping out and that's why scene was so important for me because there was a, there was a component of me that has, well was, hiding around talking about what's happening in Australia with organizations like, like Woolworths, for example, and Qantas, who is my unicorn, um, That's who I really most want to work with.

But they are, what they're doing with their staff is not great. And it is, um. So having those hearted conversations and, and recording that and sharing that in the big wild world means that I'm going there upset and ruffle some feathers. So seeing, seeing really has helped anchor my confidence and given me, um, it's, it's accelerated my rebellion, which is exactly what was needed.

That wild woman sort of energy. He just really needed to come out. I was like, you're Viking, like we have the full expression of a Viking, which is like, yeah, I am a warrior and I am deeply connected. And it is such a beautiful thing to listen to a woman who understands that we are here to unfurl a legacy.

So there's actually no rush and there is no, like, we can take our time with this. And the more we can anchor into the truth of, you know, the consciousness of our own businesses and like co create, you know, not just feel like we were by ourselves, but also the secondary thing, like just so beautiful to hear you be like, I'm committed.

Like I am in like, you know, nothing like a near death experience to show you the light, like, you know, um, Are you happy to share a little bit about that? Or is that something that feels? Yeah, yeah, of course. I'm more than happy to. So, um, I mean, like, and again, everything is connected. So I was having, um, issues with my womb.

I'd had quite a lot of trauma in that space. I'd had four miscarriages. So I, uh, I was, I was having very heavy cycles and so forth. And, [00:28:00] um, it ended up being that, uh, I had a marina in, I had it removed. And then I was near hemorrhaging for months. And the, the, what's really interesting is that the doctors.

Like the, like the, you know, just the medical profession, they were just overlooking some basic things, but I was calling it in, so I understand, even though that's what happened, that was, that was what I was preventing as well, I wasn't allowing myself to be supported, so over the course of a year, I had basically became, I basically became anemic.

And, um, so one, one morning I woke up and I really wasn't well, and I was on a zoom call and I woke up on the floor in my office and I realized, I realized that I had fainted and luckily one of my friends was on that call and, uh, She called the ambulance and I got rushed to hospital and had I not fainted, I would have died that day.

Oh my goodness. And so I had, I had the double blood transfusion and then I had to have an iron infusion and then I had to wait. And so I, I ended up having a hysterectomy as well. So it has been, but all of that sits in the sacral and the sacral is where all of our personal power sits. And as women, that's, that's, you know, the.

the point of all creation. And so none of that is a coincidence, none. And I, I, it's important. It's an important part of what has happened because without that, how even having the hysterectomy and doing all of that womb healing meant that. I was also allowing myself to really go deeper into the things that I was really afraid to look at because I had attempted many times to, to go back into that leadership space and Yeah.

You know, there, there were, there were a few different things that were happening and so for it all to come together, that other part needed to be healed. Yeah. And so that's what happened. But yeah, had I, had I not fainted? Yeah. I would've been out for the count. [00:30:00] Holy dooly. Yeah, it makes me want to wear one of those old people wrist things.

It was just, yeah, it was just so, it was, it was. It was like I jumped a timeline, like I, I, I, I jumped out of, yeah, yeah. So it was major transformation. And so then I, I understood, I understood there were, there was something deeper happening and I was preventing joy. I was preventing my, my expression. I was preventing, uh, my abundance.

I was preventing, um, just my joy to be who I am. I chose in that moment to give myself full permission to have it. And so then I did really well, until I hit that point where it was like, and now you need to go to that next step. And then in comes your post boom. So you want to be activated. Here's a fricking activation.

Yeah. And so it, I mean, I'm forever grateful and you know, I adore you and it just felt easy. I just felt so held in scene and I. Um, I just allowed myself to, um, to trust how, how you were leading us through. And, um, you know, there was a lot of crying and a lot of releasing, but there was a lot of, there was a lot of like, fuck yet, you know, a lot of like really excited, like excitable.

Um, and you like, you, you shared with me and I don't even remember if it was inside of scene or just after where you're like, I've completely rewritten my website because I've gotten crystal clear. And it was almost like, it was like. I don't know. I felt like you had like a pair of sectors and you're like, this is not truth anymore.

Like, this is not the full expression of me. And I'm actually going to speak what I really, really want, because I feel like, you know, there's, there's always parts that we feel very safe bringing to the table, like the strategy, the marketing, like I know how to do that. I know how that works. And then this karmic consciousness piece is like, Whoa, [00:32:00] that's edgy.

Like, can I really show you that part of me? And it's like, When we are in our full self expression, though, that is the secret sauce when the, you know, the organization's like, yes, you may be having many conversations where people are like, what the fuck, like, what drugs are you on? But as you said, there will be many, many people watching.

Aware that what they're doing is not making an impact. Yes. And you know, let's not leave by the table that in the corporate space, like you could be paying tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars for people to be leadership consultants and come in and put the band aid on. Yep. What is not ever going to be fixed if we don't go underneath the surface.

That's right. When you work with a CEO about, because you, you said like, um. Sorry, I've forgotten the adjective. You said something trauma like, um, unhealed unresolved or something. Yes. Yeah. Unhealed trauma. Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm interested to see whether you, because you are like the projector parts of you and I have.

In human design, I've got the, um, what's that called? The channel of judgment, which sounds really awful, but actually the channel of judgment is seeing where the gaps in, like the overall, you know, how the pattern recognition basically, like how things fit together and where the gaps are. And I'd always kind of, I kind of, I don't know, I feel like I'm a little bit befuddled when people can't see it and it's just something that.

Sometimes you can't, right. But when you are with CEOs, what patterns are you seeing in the trauma that is under the surface? Like, are we playing the same game? It is a lot of it is childhood trauma a lot. For the most part, everyone is acting out their childhood wounds. And, um, so you're seeing people express anger that they weren't able to express.

You're seeing people who are, um, rebelling because they were suppressed, you know, in their expression. I, I feel like, um, that, that is something that's very common, the rebellion and it, and it's like being rebellious. [00:34:00] Sometimes for the sake of being rebellious, like you can't tell me what to do. I totally relate to that.

Yeah. Like the way that I used to play in the corporate game was like, I'm going to come and play in your box. And then I'm going to tell you you're a fucking idiot for every single thing that you believe, because it's all bullshit. And like, and I'm like, Oh my God, the rebellious part of you is just rebelling for the sake of rebelling.

Like, you're not even like, there's no positive about this. You're getting yourself in a state. And I'm like. This is totally my trauma of not being seen and heard as a kid. Yeah. But I mean, that, that even applies to, um, you know, when I'm sharing, I have had people ask me, do you really think like talking about the spiritual side of things?

Like, do you feel like that? is really effective. Like, isn't it going to be easier for you if you don't really talk about that side of things? And I find it really amusing because I used to, I, I tried to turn it down and then it wasn't working and it was making me very sad and depressed actually squash it down.

And so now that's what I mean. Like I can't, I, I, I have to be over there in that. So I have to be so in the extreme with it for it to start to be normal. And yeah. And the, the whole, the whole reason there is this chaos and there is this disruption in organizations is because people aren't connected.

They're not anchored into their heart space and they're not connected to their higher self. And that is, you know, I say, you know, spiritual, but that's actually just connecting to the truth of you. It's not, it's not religious. It's not, it's not like even overly woo woo. Not that I even care about that, but that is.

The problem because people are acting out from their wounds and not from their heart, but it's also, it also is people don't want to feel their feelings. And so the reason that I can do this work is because I was one of those people that is my history. I'm still, I'm. I'm still very challenged when [00:36:00] it comes to feeling the feelings.

I hate feeling the feelings, even though I'm so passionate and a total chatterbox, it pains me to have to go deeper. And so with, um, with seeing, when I said that I updated my website, whilst the content and the structure on the website was all well and good and, and what was on offer was good, there wasn't anything wrong with it.

It's just that it wasn't deep enough. Yeah. And so seen when I went. Back and rewrote the website, it's because I needed to go deeper because I needed to be able to showcase that with the clients that were going to resonate for me. I needed to allow them in and not keep myself guarded because this kind of work, because when you're working with large organizations and, and CEOs, typically men who are very powerful, that energy is a force.

All on its own. And because of my experience and my trauma and my all the things, I felt like I still had to protect myself in that way. But after seeing, I realized that I need to do that. And actually by being the wild woman, feminine, but strong, gentle strength, I can actually, I can actually feel and be protected much more than I could operating in that sort of other energy.

And that, that was, that felt like a real gift. That's so, um, because as you, as you were talking about like unhealed trauma, I'd written down anger and rebellion and the other thing that was like, it's power, but it's power over, it's not power inside. It's not, it's not a resource power of like, I know who I am.

And I also understand that you are a completely sovereign being where you don't have to actually play by my rules. But the entire corporate structure is set up. It's like, you know, there is a hierarchy. There is like people that are more powerful and I'm using air quotes very generously. And. The only way that we can start to disrupt that [00:38:00] is to demonstrate power from the inside and not play the game at all.

Exactly. Exactly. And because, because a lot of the, the majority of CEOs are men. Coming in, uh, without that beautiful feminine strength is, is like, um, two masculine energies fighting against each other. And it's not going to work, especially coming from a female, right? And, and that's just, that's just the way that it is.

So I've, I've understood that. Um, there is a real strength in creating a safe container for the CEOs, a feminine, gentle container that doesn't have judgment that doesn't have, um, uh, that doesn't have unrealistic expectations, but a, a safe container where they can soften. And start to heal their grief, their shame, their guilt.

Their, all of their stuff first. But they, they, they're scared. And, and that's basically everyone. When you look at the world, everyone is just scared. We're all just trying to, yeah, figure out how to be human in this messy skin suit. Do you know, as you're talking something, and I wrote a post about this in the middle of the night, I had one of those nights, it doesn't happen very often, but sometimes it's just like, Oh, okay.

We are going to write posts for our entire evening of sleep. That's great. So I've got about 20 posts sitting on my phone. And one of them, I was, um, my mom's in hospital at the moment and she, her room overlooks, um, the sporting field of, uh, an elite boys school. private school. And so up here in Queensland, it was about 33 degrees yesterday.

And it's 12 o'clock or whatever the lunchtime was like some, sometime around midday. And all of these young men, I reckon they probably would have been grade eight, grade nine. So, you know, early, early teenage teens, long black pants, shirts and jackets and hats all in the [00:40:00] 33 degree sun. And I'm like, if you wanted to train.

a young boy how to disconnect from his feeling state and his own needs. Isn't that the best way of doing it? button them up and make being physically uncomfortable and my needs, my basic human needs of actually being cool and not being in the blistering sun. Um, like, and I'm like, this is just so broken.

We're actually training. I think we're training both genders and everybody in between. However you identify, we're training people that there's a right way and a wrong way to engage in the world, which is flawed in the first place. But particularly we're training our men that their power comes from being disconnected from their needs.

And I'm like, Jesus. Like these are 13 and 14 year olds and we, because, because no doubt the, the, you know, and that's when the power and the status and the perception of, you know, value of going to a certain school and blah, blah. And you know, where I live, I'm talking about Toowoomba is a very conservative town where it's money does speak and you know, your value is definitely, you know, there's other.

Parts of the community, but that is a very strong influence because there's lots of like, well moneyed, you know, rural families send their kids into board and blah, blah, blah. But I was like, Oh my God. So here we are as women who have partners who are like, however old they are, when they come into our field.

And we're trying to be seen and connecting in the heart. And, and we've also got our conditioning about what it's like to be, you know, a good girl and to be the caregiver and all of those things like disconnect from your needs and provide emotional safety for everybody around you, but don't meet your own needs.

Cause that is not okay. Cause it's selfish. So we've got all of this shit coming into the field. And then we wonder why. It's tricky to be in a relationship with one another. And then we wonder why, you know, like I [00:42:00] always hear these conversations about, you know, humans over. Sorry, profit and productivity being valued more than the humans.

And I'm like, the stupidity of that is that anytime you have a leader who is well resourced and connected to their heart and can actually be in their full vulnerable self and go, you know what? I fucked up. I'm owning this. Like, and normalizing being a human, that's the most. beautiful teams where the most satisfied employees are, and then they're profitable as a, like, yeah, yeah, no, that was totally a rant, but I'm like, Oh my God, we just like missing the point here.

Yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, I couldn't agree with that more, but it is, there, there is still a fight between, um, men and women and it is. Uh, the, the, we've gone from one extreme to another and now men actually have, have been at the receiving end of what's happening in the patriarchy as well, which I feel like a lot of women, um, don't really want to accept or show compassion and gentleness there, which makes me very sad.

I, I, I. I have to say, I was like that initially as well, but I can see now that for deep transformation, global transformation, there has to be a sacred safe space for that healing too. Otherwise, we're really never going to see that change. And, uh, I feel like You know, kids, teens, especially are not, you know, I, I interviewed someone recently where we were saying, imagine if boys, young men were, were taking through an initiation and how different our world would be if they, they actually were taking through like a, a um, A rite of passage to anchor into their masculinity, into their, [00:44:00] into true masculinity, not ego.

No, no, nothing like that. It would be different. It would be so different, but we have an opportunity now to allow men to do that too now, but they're scared. And women don't trust men for the most part, and men don't trust that they're going to be held to do that either. And so, you know, it's really interesting about, I reckon it might have been more than 10 years ago now.

I was record, when I was a therapist, I was recording these videos called Healing the Divine Masculine. And I did a art collection about this as well. I was exhibiting across Melbourne. But I was. I was sharing videos about how women could support men back then. And even though I was getting four, five, 600 views on those videos, I wasn't getting comments, positive or negative, none, but still getting those views.

So people are watching, but no one's, no one's saying anything because they're fucking scared to, but if I had continued on, cause after a few months I wasn't getting any traction. So I deleted all the videos and just stopped doing it. But how do I persisted? Cause I didn't understand that. I was, that was something that was really important for me to do.

Had I continued, I would be very well known by now. I would be, uh, you know, Mel Robbins, let's say, or, you know, whoever it is. Uh, it would be at that level because I would have had a whole history years and years and years of that work. Now people are starting to understand that only just still, still new, but.

That's the same thing of where I'm at now. So the universe is like, okay, well, are you going to stay the course now? Or are you going to do the same thing again? That's legacy, legacy, legacy. And that's what, like, I just had this conversation. I just got off before this call. Um, my sister mind, I'm running potent and I'm like, [00:46:00] this is legacy work.

Like this is not about wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. Whack it out. And then if it doesn't work in inverted commas, pull it out and, you know, delete the, yeah, like delete your social media posts. It's like. We are building a body of work that will unfurl over time. And you said before, like, you know, all of your careers have always led to this point.

And that's the golden thread that I always talk to people about. Like there is a golden thread, just like Steve Jobs said, you know, in retrospect, you can see the dots, you know, joining up. Like life has been unfolding in ways to nudge you towards the life purpose. Answering the call and then choosing to stay the distance and stay in the room when the shit gets uncomfortable because, you know, entrepreneurship brings up all your bloody, you know, protective parts.

But the magic is that then you do see that. Yeah, the, the viewing turning into curiosity, turning into like, Mm, okay, there's this opening and softening and like, maybe this is something that we can feel into, but it doesn't happen if we expect our work to like, be like crazy, like impactful and engage with immediately.

It's like, yeah. One of my favorite, one of my favorite people, um, who's no longer living is Dolores Cannon. She, her work, people still don't even know who she is. They were only just get her, she's got getting more sales now that she's passed away. Crazy, eh? She was alive, you know, and. It is, if that's, it's not my, it's not my business what the outcome of this is.

I just know I am serving from what I feel called to do, how I feel intuitively what needs to happen. And it's not my business where it goes or how it goes or how fast it goes or how big it grows. I just know what I'm being called to create and share. And I'm. I'm dedicated to that, very passionately dedicated to that.

And that doesn't mean I don't have days where I get the full wobbles. [00:48:00] Of course I do. I'm human, you know, with my own things. And sometimes I do get frustrated because I, you know, is entrepreneurship teaches you to not be in instant gratification. And, and, and so. When I, I remind myself and this is, it's on my website and it's basically my sort of motto is everything for the highest good of all, right?

So the organization, the work that we do is for the highest good of all. It's not just for profits. It's not just for the CEO. It's not for the board. It's not just for community. It's not just for the employees. It's for everyone and it's for the highest good of all. That's the transformation. That's global transformation.

That's my, my want for that legacy. And however long it takes is maybe I'll get to see it. If I'm lucky in this lifetime, maybe I won't. It doesn't matter. Yeah. It's, I feel like, as you were saying, I used to, um, have a connection in my field many, many years ago that used to talk about my business, your business and universal business.

And I'm like, the unfolding and the speed at which things go is like, I feel like you just take care of that. Cause that's totally not my cup of tea. Because when I. and trying to go in a particular speed. It is always ego driven or, you know, protective part driven. It's never about the truth of who I am, which is like, we've got all the time in the world.

Like this has been our life purpose for this entire incarnation and possibly before and after, like, who knows? I don't know. So I love that. Um, before we started recording, you would, you were talking about, um, A group of offerings, which is all about shifting from this identity of like entrepreneur. And I feel like this is the perfect introduction of it.

It's like, okay, so we know entrepreneurship. It's like, you know, it's going to bring everything to the surface, but what happens when we choose to step into that CEO role and what are the shifts that it requires? It's very different, well, at least from my understanding, very different identities, right? It is.

And it is [00:50:00] another opportunity for growth and it is uncomfortable. So, uh, it's, it's quite multi pronged because you move from I. And even though as entrepreneurs, you might have a couple of people working for you. That's a different space than being a CEO and having a large organization, small, medium, large organization.

It requires a, a level of trust in self that is on a whole other level. And. Self belief that you can lead at that level as well. So energetic, there's the energetic part. So you need to be able to hold the energetic container and the work that you do really helps entrepreneurs expand their energy. That's what's happened for me.

I, like I felt myself like swell, like I felt this when we were, when I was working in the scene container, I felt, you know, we did a visualization where that, that Energy went out, out, out, right? And mine went all around the world and, and, and out as well. And I felt my energetic auric field, if you will, expand right out into it.

And I, I do that as a visualization often, uh, because I feel it contract depending on what happens. I feel myself like squished back in this little bubble and then I push it back out again. When I do that, when I do that, um, I feel a deeper sense of security. So there's the energetic. component, which I think a lot of entrepreneurs, um, especially spiritually inclined entrepreneurs are really, really good at that.

But when you're moving in from entrepreneur to CEO, a lot of entrepreneurs don't have the basic business skills. So they don't know how to pull some of the really important foundational things in. Like regulation stuff, [00:52:00] process requirements, um, structuring the recruitment process, the onboarding, all of the, the really sort of not creative things.

Not sexy. No, well, they're definitely not sexy. That's so necessary to provide the structure with which you can play in someone. Yeah, because again, when you look at. Organizations as they are. And when, you know, I was using the onboarding process as a really good example, it creates a distrust and it creates, um, it creates karmic activity that you then have to clean up.

So the work that I'm doing in this. Um, group coaching is so that they are putting things in place. They have the awareness, the understanding, they have someone leading them through stabilizing all of those things. So they don't have a mess to clean up and so they can, they can, uh, feel supported because a lot of the time entrepreneurs feel really insecure and feel very overwhelmed about the implementation of things.

And so. Um, because that's my background and this is where the strategy side of things comes in. I'm able to lead them through, um, all of those aspects. And that, that feels exciting to me because I'm helping them create an even bigger legacy beyond just, uh, being an entrepreneur. And that doesn't mean all entrepreneurs are meant to be, you know, CEOs.

It's not, that's not what's meant, but some of them have a vision, a deep vision. Um, and they, they, they would activate and understand that after doing work with yourself, for example, where they'd see, Oh my God, I'm, I'm actually, this is, this is even bigger than what I thought. This is where I am. And actually, yeah.

Yeah. And so that, cause again, that's what happened to me. And so, uh, I feel like once they have the awareness, then they need some. They do need some hand holding through some of the base, the, the not fun things. And [00:54:00] so it's, it's not, it's not coaching. It's not like business coaching, uh, not general business coaching.

It's very structured about moving into being a CEO and setting up a business with all of the fundamentals and doing that in a way that is, uh, supportive and easy. My whole thing is ease. That's my favorite word. Ease. Just make it easy. Don't overcomplicate things that, and you know, I, I feel like that's where the projector vision is, is, um, cause I'm, I'm able to find smart ways to put things in place, um, and to help them let go and to trust that they can hire people to take care of all of those areas that they don't have to be the only ones.

And it is a mindset change. Um, and one that I, I enjoy. Um, and I will definitely, you know, it's, that's a new offering. So like, I feel really excited to be able to hold people accountable to the letting go. But it's a different kind of letting go. It's not letting go, trusting your high self. It's letting go, trusting others.

Yeah. And also, as you're talking, like, I love the fact that it's heart led visionaries is a language that you've wrapped around this because so many people do start entrepreneurship based on like individual needs and preferences. Like I've got a desire for freedom. I've got a desire to do my own thing.

I've got a desire to fit my, you know, work around like my income generation around other things that are important to me. And then I, and I see this a lot because I do work in that catalyst activation space where it's like, Oh, I actually asked in a group call for my Mad Hatter's home community yesterday.

I was like, if you could assign a number, if we just allowed a number to come into your field between zero and a hundred of how fully expressed you are in the fullness of what is being called to create, what would that number be? And it ranged from like zero to like [00:56:00] 25%. And I was like, yeah. And I reckon that what we're talking about.

Is one of the key things that stops people moving into their true visionary leadership, because as entrepreneurs, we are by definition, generally people that are good at creativity, innovation, bucking the trends, like, you know, like, and because we'd like this freedom fueled individuals, but unfortunately, a lot of freedom fueled individuals.

forget the setting, like they're building this, you know, creative, wild, joyful, exuberant kind of thing on top of shifting sands. And as I'm hearing you actually speak, it's like, yeah, you've got this big vision and the foundations are really, really important to anchor so that you can actually enter this visionary field.

Yeah. With a sense of like groundedness and safety because the, the structure's there, right? The foundations are there and I'm in safety in the, you know, most higher self version of it. Not like seeking safety because we want to control things, but like, yeah, I'm actually taken care of. I'm supported. I'm held.

The structure is here. So I can go out and do my thing. This vision thing. Yeah. Which is equal and opposite to the amount of anchoring I have in the structure, you know, and what I see, unfortunately, is people with these huge ideas and messages and they go out and they're like, but they actually, they're trying to do it all by themselves.

And it's actually really not something that someone, an individual can do. Right. And so what a gift to be able to. You know, have the combination of the setting in stone that's like, not stone, like anchoring. I'm feeling these like roots, like really, you know, you know, and spreading and widening and like, and then I can actually grow as this beautiful tree and I can sway in the breeze and I can respond and whatever.

Um, and pairing it with the karmic consciousness, I'm like, Hmm, do, do, do. And. For everyone listening to this conversation, like really feeling into Marianne could have not answered the call to the Karmic Consciousness end of her life, end of her [00:58:00] work, end of her life. Oh, it's fairly dramatic. End of her business.

And by doing so, you're just another person that offers strategy or leadership coaching, right? Yeah. And so your individual secret sauce and like magic in the world is diluted and you're just playing the same game that everybody else is. Whereas when you're actually owning the fullness of the cool, then you've got this like, Oh, okay, tell me more about that.

And you know, yeah, maybe you are triggering the fuck out of me because you're actually telling me that I have to look inside of myself and feel my feelings and deal with my trauma. But there is going to be people that understand that like the way that we're doing things is broken. Like we're not getting anywhere.

We're sticking band aids on. We're paying like high ticket consultants to come in, you know, and, and I don't know whether it's like this in every organization, but I'm just thinking back to the last corporate entity I was in, and everybody is just on their best behavior when the leadership consultant comes in, they all give lip service to the bullshit that we've been told that we are, and I'm like, And we just quit lying, like stop it.

That's not how we do things in the actuality of our, you know, day to day business. Um, Oh, so cool. I wonder when you look back at the version of yourself before, like that, the, like the very clear, like now I'm on the floor of my office and I'm not feeling well. Do you feel like you would have been activated into revealing the two sides of this?

without that? Yes, definitely. Like, I feel like, uh, had that experience not happened, I wouldn't have got this, this part of the vision. I really don't. I wasn't ready. I, I, I was avoiding it big time. I could, like I said, I could feel something was brewing. Um, I was hiding. I was doing everything I could, including not having any self care.

So, you know, that, that, that really tells the story of avoiding being supported, supporting myself, because had I been [01:00:00] supporting myself, then I would have supported myself to see this part. And so when you know that. And when the, you know, when the universe knows when spirit knows that, you know, it gives you a little tap, then it gives you a nudge, then it gives you a little gentle push in the back.

And then if you still ignore it, it puts their foot on your back and you tumble down the stairs and have huge, a huge life changing upside down situation happen. And I didn't need it to be like that. I just. I, but I kind of did like, obviously I did, so I could have this breakthrough, but, um, I, it was scary.

This work is frightening. Of course. You know, talking about karmic consciousness and karmic activity in organizations, people, of course, they're like, gosh, you know, she's out there. I had to get comfortable in myself. I had to be comfortable with it first before I could really share it. But like I said, up until the scene container, I, I was still, Hiding.

Yeah. And I, I, I was like, I was over it. I was over myself by then. Yeah. And so, um, that's why over those 10 days I was like, committed. I, I refused to do anything else other than just challenge myself to be still with what I was still not wi be like the stuff that I was still not willing to look at. Yeah.

Which is the old, like, I don't want to look at that emotion because I might not be able to handle it. I'm going to be, I'm going to be judged. I'm not going to be liked. People are not going to like me. Like all my own wounds, you know, about not being seen, not being heard, um, being dismissed, gaslighted. Or not being recognized as a big actor, like a huge, you know, not, not being welcome to share your Yeah.

Yeah. And because I am a projector and my profile is too full, it's all waiting for the invitation, which is very hard to [01:02:00] do. It is like, like it is painful actually, because I, I, I, there's only so much I can do without Uh, going into forcing things along, I have to trust the flow. I have to trust that people, the right people will recognize my work and want to work with me.

Um, and all I, all I, you know, that whole concept of all you need to do is create all the things and just let it be. Well, you know, that's all well and good, you know, but also I like, I want. I want some attention. Of course I do. I'm human. Of course. It's like, it's like the battle of the ego. The deconditioning is hard.

And, um, I interviewed someone recently about that, um, does human design. And she said it takes seven years to decondition. Yes. And I, I think I'm like in year two of seven. I know, right? You know, it's too hard. Seriously, I don't want to, I'm not signing up for five more years of this, but what's the alternative.

Right. Like when you get clear on, like you hear the call and you get the nudge and you, you resist, resist, resist because you're still in, you know, this is about me as an individual and this feels too scary as an individual. And then you start anchoring to, okay, there's something that I'm meant to be doing here and the calls getting louder and louder.

And then I feel like the, you know, the doorway that we. open inside of something like seen is like, actually, this is not fucking about you. This is nothing to do with Mary and the individual. It's actually Marion's gift being delivered to the world so that we can all benefit from the gift. And when we can really anchor into that, and that feels like truth for us, all of a sudden we're less.

You know, and then I feel like then, you know, we talked about in that program too, like holding that pose. It's like, like when you, when you speak about your work, I feel this very clean, very clear and very like Viking. I'm grounded. I'm a powerful woman. I know how to be soft. I know how to hold you gently.

And I also have, uh, you know, I've got a spine of steel too, so don't fuck with me either. And that is the [01:04:00] magic of, that is absolutely magnetic. And it's just about holding the pose and continuing to share the work. And allowing the universe to unfold the magic in the time that it was meant to whilst trying not to listen to the parts of you that's activated to say, hurry the fuck up.

And I like, I appreciate you seeing that for me as well. That really means a lot. Like, you know, it is, um, that's really humbling. You know, you know how much I love and adore you. So hearing you say that, and when you, when you went through the website and you said, Oh yeah, now I can actually see you and feel you.

That's really important because feel is everything for me. I want that, that, because I've got the waiting for the invitation. These people do need to feel 100%. They need to feel my energy. So they feel the safety for when this works. Yes. And, you know, talking about, you know, I'm always going to come back to the power and magic of storytelling, but when you feel into the way that you used to capture your work, um, And you, and you now do it in this way that does feel like you're, that was talking about this in a call earlier today too, like it's so important for us to create bodies of work that do the marinating and the connecting for us when we're not on, like we are out doing whatever we are in our life.

Yeah, but someone finds you and it's your, you know, your copy, your sharing, your social media, whatever it is, wherever you build your body of work. And it's different for everybody. For me, it's mainly my podcast, but that like. My curiosity is piqued. Where can I go to find out more and building that and trusting that, you know, that takes time and it takes staying in the room, even when you feel like no one's listening.

Um, and yeah, and just trusting that what comes to. Like what comes to your heart that feels, and this is why I always come back to like, [01:06:00] write love letters, like fuck writing LinkedIn articles, fuck writing social media posts with a hook and a bloody, like with a framework, like write content that connects to you so you can connect to someone else.

Because that's how, like, you know, like we're humans and we want to, you know, feel something. Yeah. Oh, because I, because I'm my, my target audience are men. Yes. I can't, I can't be as like, if I was talking to a female audience, that, that for me is so easy. Yes. Right. And I, and at one stage I tried to focus just on women, but that's not who my clients are.

And again, that was part of the avoiding, right? Because I had to challenge myself to find another way of communicating. And so there has to be some, because of, um. Where the CEOs are, they're not in that full spiritual place. So it's not toning it down, but the, it needs to, my communication needs to be a bit more thoughtful and strategic and soft.

And so that is, that is challenging to write love letters to, you know. In a language, that's not your natural tongue, right? Like your native tongue. Exactly. Yeah. I think that's such an important thing to say. Like I, there's writing love letters and there's also, and I guess, yes, that's actually a really good reminder for me because often when I'm working with someone, we are talking to a former version of them, but not always.

And you're a perfect example. And then that's when it becomes so important to be like. Asking and, um, uh, building into our processes like before, during and after, so we can demonstrate and we can actually use our client's language. Yes. Like this is how I would say it, but actually if I translate that into my non native tongue, which is, you know, men in suits of blah, blah, blah, then how would they actually, you [01:08:00] know, and there's ways of delivering the same message, but in different language.

So it actually opens the door for different people. Yeah. And I'm not, I'm not. I'm certainly not shying away from, you know, how I speak or like even the spiritual side of things, but that's not really the conversation. The conversation is, this is how I can help your organization and you as a leader. And so when I'm thinking about the solution that I'm providing, that that's, that's what drives the conversation.

But I, I had to let. I had like a different persona on LinkedIn, uh, that I did on Instagram and now it's just one. Uh, like what goes on Instagram goes on LinkedIn as well. There's no, um, I, I felt I was splitting myself in a million different parts and it's exhausting. It was trying to perform the right way.

Yeah. And, and so I just gave myself permission to. To just be whole and just you, because then there's no surprises when they get you into the first session, right? They hire you based on what they've seen and they get you into this first session. And it's like, well, I don't know. I was getting that now.

Now what I'm getting is something different. And unfortunately, what that does in our brains is like, it creates this dissonance. And so we don't trust the person. Like trust, like integrity, like I know you from, you're a human that very much values, like I am an honest, trustworthy, safe human for you to do this work with.

And so the very last thing you want to do is introduce dissonance into the minds and hearts of the people that you most want to serve. Like that. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. And I, especially because trust is such a big issue for CEOs. Yes. How like to, to, you know, keep, to create that distrust that way is really easy.

And so I like, I've just been very, very mindful. Mm-hmm . And that's why I feel like at the moment, um, a lot of CEOs are listening. Mm-hmm . [01:10:00] Looking. They haven't quite engaged in the way that I'd like them to, but that's okay. Mm-hmm. You know, like I said, this is, um. This is actually also just like so many things of our conversation is like reemphasizing things that I've talked about today.

Like, there's like three levels of kind of awareness in your ideal client, right? There's like the person who knows that it's not working, but they have no idea. You know, they don't even probably, they couldn't really put their finger on what the real problem is, but they know it's not working. So they're aware that, you know, something's hinky.

And then there's the people that they know it's not working and they've got some concept of what the solution might be, but they might think the wrong solution is actually a solution, but where we know maybe there's actually something that would open the door even wider and quicker and easier. And then there's that person at the top of the tree.

That's like. I know the problem. I know the solution. Now I'm just looking for the person to deliver the solution. And I feel like the, um, you know, the first and second level, there is a longer burn with awareness, raising an education first, and there's nothing wrong with that. And if you're drawn to serve those people, it's just a slightly, it's not even a longer game.

It's like you need to be. Educating first. Yes. And then you need to be offering the invitation. Offer the invitation. Yeah. Like you're, you're like, you know, I had an example before was like, I want to sell them the holiday in Greece, but I'm not telling them when they're getting on the plane and what to pack and whatever.

I'm like, I'm talking about the end stage, but sometimes you actually do need to start from where they are because they don't even know that they want to go to Greece. That's right. And, and, um, and, and the bit at the moment for me is, um, reinforcing the, the. Personal development rather than professional.

Yeah. That's actually where the, the first step is acknowledging that they need to do the, the personal development side of things. Yes, they've got plenty of advisors and coaches helping them with the business side of things, and they've got employees that are helping with all of that as well. [01:12:00] However, it's the personal side that is.

It, that is affecting the organization and that's not just with the CEO, that's with everyone in those organizations. But like I said, when you look at the world, that's, you know, for the majority of people are suppressing how they're feeling. They're avoiding how they're feeling. They're, um, utilizing tools of all kinds to avoid any truth within themselves.

And, um, And so there is a compassion and a gentleness that has to be there. Um, even though I'd like to see it happen a little bit faster, but I, I, you know, I've got the, um, heart led, uh, retreats that I've, I'm doing with my, um, my best friend, Lisa. And that's a really, that's a really beautiful offering because it's only for 10 CEOs.

Um, and they, they come in to do the heart work and they come in to, um, anchors man. I want to be a fly on the wall. My favorite part is, um, It seems light until it's really not, you know, I'm like, come with me this way. And then we go down deep into the ocean and it is, um, you know, I don't, I don't know if you know, like the Lilith archetype, but it is, that's the energy, right?

It's heart opening, but with, with, with love and compassion, but it is a crack heart opening. And so that's why there's only 10, because it is a very, There needs to be an intimacy in work like that, and it is, um, it is deeply sacred. So it's after that, then, you know, we move into, um, the coaching and, you know, the large transformation program, but that that's a really beautiful entry point for someone who wants to test it out over three days.

And I just love, I'm giggling and I'm not giggling at you. [01:14:00] I'm just giggling at the fact that so often we are. Like offering this and then there's a Trojan horse that's like, and now here's what you're actually going to do to, to, to, um, I know that the heart led visionaries, like you've got things starting in March.

When is there a retreat coming up as well that we need to retreat is in May. May. Okay. Perfect. Yeah. So where can we find all of those things? What's the best link? All of those things that are on my website, which is maryannkatzidis. com. Perfect. And it is very phonetic. So K A T S I D I S, and we will have it in the show notes, but just in case you're in the car and you're driving the anchor, it has been such an honor to have you on.

I just, I am so fucking lit up when I see women. Like hearing the call and committing and then understanding that it's about, you know, staying in the room, holding the pose and being in our full expression. So thank you so much for sharing your story and thank you. I'm so like seeing this so magical for me because it was the first time I'd ever shown my full self in the marketplace.

And then all of these spectacular humans like you have come into my field and I'm like. Well, fuck, if I knew that was going to happen, I would have done that years ago. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You're so welcome. And, uh, just, I have so much gratitude and love for you. Like, I, I understand how significant that time was in the scene.

And I, like, I, that will, I will always. Cherish and hold that so close to my heart is been, um, yeah, it's, it was an absolute game changer and highly recommend for anyone that's listening, who hasn't been in scene or any of the other programs, um, definitely do that and challenge yourself to do the implementation side that, you know, I'm, I, because of my background, I was, I'm, I'm good at doing the work, but, uh, that part is the hardest part.

You know, it isn't just acknowledging it's actually like, okay, now you [01:16:00] have to go do all of this. Yeah. And it's like people that like, and I count myself in this, like, read the book and look at the reflection questions that they end to go, Oh, I'll come back to them. It's like, well, you all know that that's not going to happen.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, Steen is actually now self study because so many people said that was so much and like, you know, it's like, Yeah. 10 day programs. And now you can, you know, study it over 30 whatever, you know, whatever feels manageable. So thank you so, so much. And if you are listening and like, you're hearing these like, Oh, like points of like, Oh, there's something here for me.

Just go and marinate in more of Marianne, her website, her offerings, and just like trust. trust that knowing that pulls you towards things when you get curious about it. Um, because yeah, she's a bloody epic person to have on your team. So thank you. Thanks. Beautiful.

There you go beautiful one, another delicious, juicy, truth talking episode with a Disruptor, Rebel or Revolutionary sharing the identity shifts. And the mess and the magic of leading right on the edge of your expansion and going first as a visionary leader, as a woman creating a business, and inviting people to completely new ways of learning, living, loving, and leading.

It is not lost on me that you have invested your time and your energy in listening to the show. I am so grateful for your beautiful heart, for the work that you do in the world, and I know that if you're here you are more than likely one of what I call the Mad Hatters. So the quirky, colourful, creative, out of the box, often neuro sparkly paradigm shifters and thought leaders.

So I'm so grateful that you're here. If you loved this episode, which I'm sure you did, please do me a favour and share it with someone else who [01:18:00] needs to understand that their quirkiness and their full unapologetic self expression is more than enough, and in fact is the secret source to growing a wildly successful, abundant, nourishing, sustainable business.

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