Cecily Sailer is a creativity coach, writer, Tarot reader, and founder of Typewriter Tarot, a project that helps Creative Spirits find guidance, inspiration, and community. Cecily is the author of Tarot for Creative Spirits, a workbook that offers an embodied study of the Tarot. She also hosts the podcast Your Creative & Magical Life. She's a bird-nerd and nature lover living in Austin, Texas.

 This was such a lovely light-giving chat with Cecily, and we dive into:

• Cecily's experience of alcoholism as a numbing and coping mechanism and the journey to finding herself sober and beginning the work of healing that was underneath it all along
• systems sourced from capitalism and how they squash life into boxes and disconnect us from our creative craft, rather than deepen our relationships with it
• how Cecily came across tarot a year after she got sober, and how tarot can be used to connect and inform our self-discovery
• how tarot has helped Cecily connect with and create her own spiritual sensibility... and reclaim her creativity, something she now helps others do through her Tarot-based business
• the different lenses through which tarot is viewed, and a funny little example of how people can 'outsource' their answers to a deck, rather than connect to their own internal power and choices.
• a super fun 3 card pull, which we did when recording in October, for the opening of the 2025 New Year... you betcha I am going to listen back to this when we round the corner and say "ahhhhhhhh ok that makes sense!"

Find Cecily online and sign up for her email list to get the first three prompts from her absolutely gorgeous workbook Tarot for Creative Spirits at www.typewritertarot.com  and connect to Cecily's Substack here.  

 

___

Hey there beautiful! I have something for you! ⤵️

GRAB OUR FREE GUIDE HERE

---

TRANSCRIPT - S4E18 The Magickal Union of Tarot and Creativity with Cecily Sailer

Cecily Sailer: [00:00:00] after I quit and I went to AA for a while that really helped me stay sober and I got a new therapist who specialized in recovery and really started doing some healing work with her.

Kylie Patchett: Welcome to Wild and finally fucking free, hosted by me, soul fueled storyteller Kylie Thatcher. We dive into the truth talking, unedited stories of metamorphosis, growth and evolution. I deeply believe that sharing our stories holds transformative magic. Join us to listen to future humans, change agents, extraordinary ordinary people, healers, and paradigm shifters as we honor the power of our messy magical stories.

Let's get wild and finally fucking free together.

Hello, everybody. Welcome to another edition of the podcast. I have beautiful Cecily Sailer with me today. Hello, Cecily. How are you? 

Cecily Sailer: Hello, I'm well. Thank you. Thank you for having me. 

Kylie Patchett: I am looking forward to our chat. We're saying, we're saying both of us love magic, creativity, tarot, et cetera, et cetera. So we're going to dive on in.

Um, Cecily, for those who don't already know you and your work in the world, could you introduce yourself? Yes, 

Cecily Sailer: I am a creativity coach and a tarot reader and a writer and the creative witch behind a business called Typewriter Tarot, which is a community for what I call creative mystics, people who have a creative streak and who also are interested in peering into the unseen Realms, divination, magic, things like that.

I live in Texas. [00:02:00] I'm a bird nerd. Uh, I have a couple of dogs. You love a bird nerd. 

Kylie Patchett: I love that terminology. That's very cool. Very cool. Have you always been a bird nerd since you were a little lil? Or is this a recent thing? 

Cecily Sailer: It's grown on me. Both my mom and my grandmother were bird, are bird people. And my mom would get me up when I was in fourth grade at like five 30 in the morning, some weekends to go to the mall parking lot and get in a weird van with a bunch of old people who are strangers to me.

And then we would go to a park and do birdwatching. And I was the only kid. You know, so I was a little like, I don't know about this, but over the years, um, it has definitely grown on me. And then my mom took me and my stepsister on a exclusively birding trip to Costa Rica, where there are more bird species than like in the entire North America.

And after that, I was like, Okay. Now I'm feeding birds. Now I'm cultivating bird habitat. Now I'm looking at birds everywhere I go. Uh, now I'm like telling people, like helping people set up their bird feeders. I'm reminding people turn off your lights. It's migration. Yeah. So. Oh my goodness. 

Kylie Patchett: You're reminding me so much.

I've got a dear friend in New Zealand who, um, we always used to joke, we'd go on girls trips and we'd be like, all right, you are limited to five scientific facts about. Like any animal, she's pretty much equally obsessed with all, but now she is very bird focused. And I actually love it because when she comes over here, we've got, um, a big tree just outside where our outdoor deck is.

And there's always like parrots or whatever that she's like, Oh, did you see there's a such and such like a, you know, a red breasted yellow spotted bloody, bloody, but I'm like, no, I did not know that that's what that was, but it's [00:04:00] pretty. Yeah. That's as much as what I, but yeah, I understand because I feel like, um, I don't know, watching birds, I get the same thing with chickens, which I know is a different set, you know, still a bird, but different again.

I just feel like there's something that happens inside my nervous system when I'm just watching something in its own natural habitat going about its little, you know, the little hopping and the feeding and the whatever's, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, It is. It reminds me of the fact that everything is as it should be.

Cecily Sailer: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's really important and very true. And Birdsong is very regulating to our nervous system. It tells us that like the environment is safe and safe. Yes. That things are just like humming along, but yeah, it's like nice to watch birds. I mean, I guess they're the animal we can most easily see like, you know, so it's nice to see them just going about their business and it's kind of like maybe all the stuff that.

I'm freaking out about is an abysmal. Yeah. You know, everybody's, everybody's just trying to get through the day. And like, yeah, I, 

Kylie Patchett: I kind of, it reminds me of that thing where, you know, all of us industrialized conditioned, you know, people, uh, you know, pushing and striving and heading towards something. And yet most indigenous cultures would say our purpose is just to hello, little person.

Oh, is Isley's dogs just joined us? Who is 

Cecily Sailer: this? This is Queenie. Yeah, she's a labradoodle. She's very cute. Very sweet, yes. 

Kylie Patchett: Ah, all the animals. We'll have all the animals. Um, yeah, but the Indigenous cultures are like, you're here to have an experience. You're just here to live. You're not here to get to anywhere, or and when you look at something in nature, you're like, they are not there.

striving or [00:06:00] anything, they're just responding to their environment and doing what they, yeah, yeah, like to do. Um, I find the same with fish. I love watching fish. Like there used to be, there is a huge aquarium in, um, Sydney in Australia. It was like, I don't know, maybe two floors or three floors of like, Open fish tank where you can just sit and just watch the fish going about their business.

And I have the same sort of thing. It's like, Oh, I don't actually have. Yeah. So yeah, that's a good point though. Because if there's no birdsong generally that that's like there's predator or something to pay attention to. And I've never thought about that nervous system wise. 

Cecily Sailer: Yeah. And I think, I mean, unfortunately bird populations are.

In major decline and we've lost like 70 percent of birds since like 1970, um, 

Kylie Patchett: 70%. 

Cecily Sailer: Yeah. It's really, really shocking and terrible and tragic. And so, you know, people today are not like, you know, our kids are not hearing as much bird song maybe as we did or our grandparents did. And obviously, you know, you can still live your life, but just, it's a beautiful, beautiful thing.

And it's really unfortunate that climate change and all of our development, you know, like you were saying. Yeah. We watch animals just. They take care of their needs and there isn't this excessive quest for more, but our as humans, our quest for more is really compromising all the other life that we share the planet with.

Absolutely. 

Kylie Patchett: Absolutely. And continues to do so. I know far out. Um, I want to come back to creativity coaching. Cause I feel like, um, I hear that term all the time and yet I don't necessarily have an anchor of like, how would you explain that to somebody? Um, [00:08:00] cause I feel like I'm only just finding my creative self.

So maybe that's actually, that's actually probably where I needed a creativity coach. 

Cecily Sailer: Yeah. I, I think that, you know, so much of the struggles that we have in life, or like, you know, a lot of the things that, um, cause us trouble in just, you know, getting, doing, doing work, having relationships, being in a family, those same kinds of things impact our creativity.

And we live in a world. it seems now with capitalism having many centuries, you know, several centuries to really entrench itself where we get a lot of mixed signals about creativity. It's like creativity is great such that it can produce for Um, you know, the company you work for and increase profits like peop, you know, a company's happy to use your creativity for their profit margins or their marketing or, mm-hmm.

you know, all of that. But then there's kind of this message that if you have creative energy that you're using just for yourself, that it's suddenly a lot less valuable. Yeah. And it's something that maybe you should do. Like when you've done all of the other serious things. Oh my 

Kylie Patchett: goodness. Yes. So 

Cecily Sailer: if you've done your job and taking care of the kids and 

Kylie Patchett: yeah, but also 

Cecily Sailer: that, um, right.

And, and then along the same line, if you're interested in pursuing a career, that's creative, your parents probably are going to encourage you away from that because. There's this whole idea of creativity, you will put you into poverty. And so people who are creative, which is everyone, like even the birds are creative, the animals are creative.

Like I think creativity [00:10:00] is an energy that we get to have a relationship with. And so, um, When we're trying to be creative or work on a creative project or finding space in our life to come back to creativity, all of the stuff, all of the programming from capitalism and everywhere else is going to get triggered.

And so people, a lot of people have a really like, Not very fun, kind of difficult time trying to create and then they think something's wrong with them. And then there's all the perfectionism. There's so many things that can really make having, you know, a creative practice really difficult. So I work with people to kind of see, you know, where is the struggle and where might that be coming from?

And how can we reframe things? There's also the aspect of like importing the productivity. imperative from capitalism onto the creative practice, which is definitely going to make you feel like ass. Yeah, exactly. The exact 

Kylie Patchett: opposite of the feeling of being creative for the sake of it. Yes. 

Cecily Sailer: Yeah. So figuring out how to make creativity and a creative practice sustainable for you and your life and to conduct it in such a way with a perspective that You know, makes it feel good.

That's really enriching and I think creativity and magic aren't that different. So when we get to connect with creativity more, there's, there's rewards beyond just the art we produce or the feeling that we get in the moment, though, those are really amazing, wonderful things too. Oh, 

Kylie Patchett: you're just so I was literally just having a conversation with someone, um, the other day and I was like, Oh, I haven't gotten myself to cause I live in a little country town and here we have an art group on Wednesday mornings and everybody comes and does all different [00:12:00] types of art.

And there's like a mentor person that can, she, she's kind of like a multi, um, what do you call it? Like multi, um, I'm not getting the right word, but like multidisciplinary artists, so she, you know, can help with a lot of different things, but just gives you sort of tips, but there's no, there's no like assigned steps or practices or like, you're not, you're not there to produce a specific thing, like a kind of like, I don't know, paint and sip.

I don't know if they're a thing in America, but here they're like, you know, come and have some wine and create a, yeah. resin board to eat your cheese off. I don't know, like that sort of thing. Um, but I, I was having a conversation with someone and they're like, why do you think that you, it takes you so much to get there?

Like I was in flow for ages and ages. And then I stopped because I got into a busy period and then I. can't seem to get back in. And I was like, I think it's actually twofold. First of all, because I've done so many different types of art as a young kid, I can't, like I, I'm having difficulty finding the thing that I want to anchor to.

Um, and then if I arrive with no set medium or project, I end up just talking to people. Then I sort of feel like, well, now I've taken five hours out of my business that I haven't done anything with it. And then that's the second thing. It's a productivity thing. It's like. All my hours have to be producing something.

And yet I know very well that when I was going regularly, the, the space and the juice that comes out of just being in the flow of creativity actually made everything outside of that easier. I was happier. I was more content. I was more nourished as a human. Um, I also had lots of different ideas about how to approach something in business or, you know, Because my brain was out of the box of my normal four walls and my normal computer screen and all of those things.[00:14:00] 

And I'm like, who told me, but then I look back and go, I did art at high school. And as soon as we got to the stage where you had to pick subjects, I gave art away because my conditioning was like, I, I wanted to be a doctor actually originally, originally. And so I did straight science and math. So like at grade, I don't know, nine, which here is like, I don't know, 13 or 14.

I just went, Oh no, art's not important because it's not getting me towards where I want to go. And I'm like, Oh my goodness. I've been conditioned so well to be a piece in the machine. How do we get out of the machine, Cecily? Oh my goodness. Um, do you find that that is a common thing that like art has been put or creativity?

I won't say art, creativity in whatever form it is. Gets put on the back burner to do the to do list. How do we re enter being able to give time and space to something? 

Cecily Sailer: Yeah, 

Kylie Patchett: that's a 

Cecily Sailer: great question. And I suppose the answer 

Kylie Patchett: is, 

Cecily Sailer: yeah, the answer would, you know, sort of depend on the person, but I think part of it is kind of, um, reconnecting with the version of you that was creative back in the day, or that did feel that sense of permission to just draw or paint or write or, and going back to that version of you that really felt the intrinsic motivation to do it, that, you know, creativity is really about expression and having ourselves be like witnessed and also taking this experience we have as humans.

That's very perplexing to us, even though it's also beautiful and also difficult, but finding a way to. not hold that internally forever, but to do something representational with it and [00:16:00] put it outside of ourselves. And so I think because of that, you know, when you start to do that, when you're expressing yourself in that way, then the channel, all these other channels are kind of flowing, like you were talking about in your experience.

Very true. So, yeah, like for one thing, kind of revisiting that version of you and maybe even thinking about, you know, what happened or what was I told or what was I, what kind of belief was I fed to take me in another direction and, and then from there, giving yourself some really, really good advice. low stakes way to just create for the sake of it.

Like really taking off any kind of project imperative or a deadline or some kind of like, I must get to this point with this thing. Letting yourself Um, just like fuck around, honestly, and, you know, in your case, like, if you go to the um, the artist day, kind of, I think it's great that they have so many different modalities and just sort of like walking around and asking, like, what color am I drawn to or what modality is my feeling in my body right now and letting yourself Self have that kind of spontaneous in the moment experience with it.

And I think, yeah. And you know, you also mentioned like, I don't know which thing I should hone in on, which is another thing that we're really coached into doing as young people. It's like, once you get to college, you really have to specialize and it really takes us out of this. holistic, like, uh, idea of who we are, which is very multifaceted.

And so you can see how just these pieces of ourselves get left behind. And then we get somewhere in life and we're like, something's missing and I'm not happy. And sometimes [00:18:00] creativity can, can be a good answer, a good place to kind of bring life back into things. As you're 

Kylie Patchett: talking, I'm, I'm having so many connections to.

Like, I feel like when I was young, like I had imaginary, I was an only child. I had lots of imaginary friends. I had like an entire, you know, entire system of imaginary friends. And I was talking about this on another podcast. I don't know if you know the books, cause I think this is an Australian author, but Enid Blyden wrote this series of books called Magic in the Faraway Tree and that Magic in the Faraway Tree, all of the characters and.

The entire setting of that series was so clear in my head, so clear in my head, and then I connected all of my imaginary places up to that and whatever. And then as I got older and was conditioned that my worth pretty much was in my head, like my intelligence, not anything else. Like, you know, let's just focus on this, like getting ahead, da, da, and, um.

So it's only really been in the last few years that I've reconnected to the imagination part of myself. I'm just like, Oh my God. And I think that's where I wanted to ask you about when you say, you know, the magical, you know, people that are into magic and the creative people that are open to the unseen.

It's like, I feel like capitalism or like the current social order. removes us from the magic and the unseen and the creativity and attaches us to productivity, working hard, being part of the system. Um, and that's where the shit goes wrong, right? I just feel like let's all just remember magic. So how would you capture, actually, no, before I ask you about magic, I'm interested.

Had you ever lost your connection to your creativity? Was that part of your journey as well over that you had to re find it? Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Yes. 

Cecily Sailer: Yes. [00:20:00] I was also an only child. I did not have a lot of imaginary friends, but I had pets and I imagined that they had like imaginary consciousness or something that of course they have a consciousness, but anyway, I imagine they had like, I won't go into it, but, um, yes, so only child and I, You know, when so often I was the only kid in a space and spent a lot of time in my head or reading books or things like that, when I, for me, a book was Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, which whose protagonist is an only child.

And I

Love to Hershey bar, uh, back in the day. Um, but reading that book, I think it was like, I felt so seen by it that I really wanted to become a writer at that age. So, um, there was some, you know, various attempts at like writing different kinds of things as a young person. around the time that, you know, computers started to be available to people in their homes and all of that.

So there was some of that. And then, um, In college, I majored in journalism and started writing for the school paper. And so that was, I guess, like a more professionalized version of creativity, but also as a young, like as a teenager, um, or in my late teens, I guess, I also started drinking and had. a father who was a heavy drinker and two grandfathers who were definitely alcoholics.

And as a shy child from, uh, divorced parents who didn't have a lot of, um, I guess like modeling for emotional expression. [00:22:00] And, you know, I always felt a little out of place with other kids because other kids who had brothers and sisters just kind of like seemed to know how to interact. And I was like, 

Kylie Patchett: Oh, I'm feeling your heart here.

Cecily Sailer: Yeah. And so, you know, alcohol really helped me. like socialize and kind of present or bring out parts of myself that I didn't feel like I could naturally sort of bring out without them. And of course, alcohol is addictive and the years went on and it got worse. And so by, you know, in some of the later Years of my drinking days, um, I really felt no connection to creativity.

I mean, alcohol became my main method for coping with emotions and, you know, you use it to kind of numb or distance yourself from the unpleasant emotions, but you end out. end up numbing to everything. And so I, by the end, I was really quite, I felt very empty. I felt, um, very isolated. I felt pretty hopeless.

And like, I think, you know, creativity wasn't like completely gone from me, but there was no good space for it to enter. And I, you know, I didn't have, like, I wasn't taking the care of myself that would have allowed me to do interesting things with it. And then when I quit drinking and started to heal and recover, um, tarot came into my life and creativity came back.

You know, and I really started making some beautiful connections. Like I had gone through a master's program in creative writing and felt like there are many great things about it, but also I, it didn't take me where I wanted to be. I didn't know how to utilize it very well. And I also, [00:24:00] I felt by the end.

That, um, yeah, I felt a little more lost creatively than I think I did when I started. And I think because academia, I'm on a slightly different subject, but I, I'm going to circle it together. Yeah. I'm feeling you. But because, um, when, when I, my creativity did start coming back and when I, um, came to. like appreciate tarot and have this really interesting encounter with it.

Um, I realized that it is a storytelling technology and it actually can serve writers really well. And that started me on this journey, kind of exploring what tarot and creativity have to do with each other. First, it was like tarot and writing, but then it's become more broad in terms of tarot and creativity.

And. Oh, I was so close to my thought. Give me one moment. Um, yeah. So I, I noticed also just talking to other people who had done creative writing programs that there was a lot of struggle after their program for them as well. And so even as we go into like deeper into our craft, sometimes these institutions that are also part of capitalism, like they're not asking.

What creativity is or what process serves us best. It's just like, you get into a serious program and then all that stuff I was talking about earlier is going to get activated, but you don't really have anyone to support you with any of that. So you have to like push through, but then 

Cecily Sailer: by the end, you're like, you know, what is my relationship to creativity now?

It's like very. Um, so I think, um, I guess I'm coming to your second question. Maybe I'll stop. No, no, no. I know. I love, 

Kylie Patchett: I think, I think though, um, what I'm taking from what you've said, um, in terms of creativity and the system that we, you know, the current social order, if you think about that as a [00:26:00] system, because it is, we, the, the whole system intends for us to be good worker bees, creativity.

On the surface, at least doesn't serve the system and, you know, from the powers that be perspective. And so I agree that, um, you know, you go into any, and I found the same. In medical science. And I know that sounds a little bit weird because you would think medical science has to be a box. When I studied medical science, it.

Disconnected me from intrinsic health and well being knowing that I had as a human, because it took my knowing put it all in my head and then put it in boxes of right and wrong, black and white, etc. And I'm just like, this is not how humans work. Right. And that's what you're basically saying about the same thing.

It's like, I went there to try and deepen my craft. I'm assuming like my intention was to deepen and get more created to my craft, connected to my craft. But actually what happened is it disconnected me from myself and put a system or a structure over the top. Um, and I think that that's where a lot of, um, and I would say the same for copywriting.

I'm like, I'm all for using a copywriting framework to like respond to, to then play inside of using your own creativity. But I think when we get to the stage where we're like, this is the correct structure for this page. I'm like, no, because we're all different and we all have different people we're speaking to.

We all have different values and voices and all of those things. And I just think any system that seeks to put a one size fits all magic solution over the top of it is flawed. By definition, unless we're talking about clones, like unless we're talking about, I don't know, a group of genetically engineered Cecily's and Kylie's that are all exactly the same, maybe that would work, but I still don't think it would anyway, because then there's environment.

Anyway, that's a whole other kettle of fish. Um, I want to come back to what you said about [00:28:00] when, um, when. Drinking was the way of, you know, pushing down or not, not feeling like numbing out the emotion. Um, something you'd said, uh, in the questions before we did the podcast was, um, when you stopped drinking, you started to really heal.

Um, and I thought that was such a, Such a clear fork in the road of numbing and trying to push down and then actually choosing to face and heal very different energy. Can you tell us a little bit more about that to, to your comfort, obviously, of what you'd like to share? Um, what, what happened or how did you make that?

How did you draw the line in the sand? I guess is my simple way of asking that question. Yeah. 

Cecily Sailer: I, well, I struggled to quit or mod, moderate, modulate my drinking for a long time and always failed and had tried therapy of a couple, you know, with a couple of different people at different times, but also. You know, the way addiction works, it really requires denial.

And so while I, you know, I wasn't ready, I guess, to quit drinking at that time. And so I wasn't going to fully bring that issue into the room or sometimes I would mention it and the therapist. just did it, you know, it was like, well, just, you know, don't drink if you're tired or you're hungry. And I was like, I think you have no understanding of like what's going on with me and alcohol.

But, um, yeah, it got to a point, um, where like, I was pretty high functioning. Like, you know, no one was pulling me aside and [00:30:00] saying, Hey, you have a problem. Or like, this is like, you're really. Fucking up everything. Um, and so, However, like I had been in, I started a relationship or like a relationship I had, this partner moved in and we had been long distance for a while.

So I was also under this illusion that like when he arrived that I would suddenly like not have this problem anymore, but obviously that's not what happened. So there was someone, you know, seeing the problem. And so a little bit of it, it wasn't like an. Uh, it wasn't like an ultimatum per se, but I had also Um, kind of invested a lot in the relationship, and it became clear to me that I was going to lose the relationship if I didn't change something.

But there was also an incident where like I lost a bunch of my stuff, like two instances back to back and both times like they were related to, it was connected to my drinking and the second time it happened, the way I lost my stuff was so like unusual in a sense. Like it was. Just very startling to me that it happened in the way that it did and that I took that as a message from the universe like you're gonna lose everything if you don't take some action now, and I think I had been kind of desperate for a while, but I didn't want to.

I mean, part of me, like, desperately wanted to go to some, like, rehab space and spend a month, like, not working and just, like, figure it out, but I also felt a tremendous amount of pressure from myself, I guess, to, like, keep functioning, and so, um, yeah, it was just a day where, like, and I also had to, Uh, a real stigma around [00:32:00] Alcoholics Anonymous.

I just thought, like, well, the day I have to walk into an AA meeting, like, I'm just a loser. Like I'm, but that, you know, by the time I was like, I can't keep doing it anymore. I think like it's time. It's time. Um, I called the AA hotline. I talked to a lady to ask how the meetings were to like build up that courage.

And then the next day I went to a meeting and that was the first day I didn't drink anymore. And I, yeah, so, um, it was a spiritual intervention in a sense, and also like a buildup of my awareness of the problem for a long time. And then finally surrendering to the fact that like, It's not all these other things I'm trying to fix.

Like this is the main problem. Well, 

Kylie Patchett: at least this is the surface of the main problem. This is the symptom of the main problem. Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then how, how and where did you discover tarot? Like how did this, because it seems like it was a similar period of time, like a fairly close in. Yeah.

Cecily Sailer: It was like a year and a month after I quit and I went to AA for a while that really helped me stay sober and I got a new therapist who specialized in recovery and really started doing some healing work with her. And in that first year, I mean, when I went to that first AA meeting, there were, you of a meeting, people get up and.

get chips. And it's like, I've been sober for 30 days. I've been sober for 90 days. I've been sober for a year, six months. And just seeing someone get like a 30 day or 60 day chip that evening, I was like, I'm never going to make it there. You know, um, it just seems so impossible. And yet I [00:34:00] continued to make it and having spent time in the AA rooms and I think AA has some of problem.

It does have like limitations for people, but it's also free and it's usually happening somewhere near you. So it's very accessible. Very true. But being in those rooms where people were sharing their stories and their struggles and, you know, hearing people who'd really kind of had a worse Uh, journey and people who had not had a worse journey and just like all the different ways that it manifested for people around this thing that I felt like I couldn't really talk about in a truly honest way with people in my life.

Not because they wouldn't accept me, but just because if you're not dealing with, if you're not experiencing it yourself, it really doesn't make a lot of sense. 

Yeah. 

Cecily Sailer: Um, so I think just the gratitude I felt for. all of these people sharing their stories and for the therapist that was helping me and having come from a place where I felt like nothing was going to change and I felt incredibly hopeless to finding out that a lot, like everything could change.

Yeah. 

Cecily Sailer: I was like, I, there was some sort of like a little evangelist in me that wanted to like, let people know. And so I considered, um, going to school to become a therapist, but I was like late in my 30s and still had student debt. So I, that same partner, uh, had moved in with a tarot deck and my house was small.

I, we were trying to get rid of some stuff and I was, we already had a deck. I actually had a deck for like 15 years, but never used it because I thought you had to be like psychic or you had to have a grandmother who would teach it to you or something. So I gave this deck to my stepsister and we did a little reading with a little [00:36:00] guidebook and I knew her very, you know, I know her very well and the cards were just like, so spot on that I was like, Oh, 

this is the modality I'm looking for to try and use story, which is like something I already really cared about, to show people that possibility is there or transformation can happen. And not with like an agenda, to have like real conversations with people about their lives and their hopes and, and look for pathways to, you know, move in that direction.

Kylie Patchett: Love this. I love this. I think, um, it's, I similarly when I like I often when I was much younger gone for tarot readings or, you know, numerology or like all the things all the different things. I have a pretty solid habit of around my birthday in January, I'll have, you know, some sort of reading. Um, but I I only learned, I learned how to read with a specific deck, um, because a friend of mine who was also doing the form of massage that I used to do, was starting like a how to read tarot.

And I was like, Oh, but I don't have like, I'd like, I wouldn't call myself psychic. I wouldn't call my, like, I'm not done with that. And she's like, Oh no, no, no. So I had a similar kind of reference point, I think of like, and then I also, I do have a couple of friends that are like, I would not touch those cards because they're like, you know, connecting to the devil.

I'm like, okay. Um, anyway, um, I love how you. You have, so tell me the process that you said that you, you paired the tarot with writing initially, and then have kind of broadened to all sorts of creativity. Um, can you tell us more about the, how you see the connection of the two and how they open each other up?

Cecily Sailer: Yeah,

I think [00:38:00] tarot, I mean, for one, just like literally tarot is an art object. So it's the product of someone's creativity and every card is a work of art. So just by looking at the images, there's some kind of creative stimulation happening and some kind of creative questioning and curiosity that gets sparked, like what's happening here?

Um, what could this be telling me? And then, you know, When you're using the cards or reading the cards. You know, let's say you do a three card pull and you have those three all next to each other, your brain and your intuition will start to look for and craft some story or connection between those three points.

And then if you're reading for someone else, there's the like, intuitive, and creative feel of like what's going on for them and what question are they asking? So I think it just started and also, you know, stories were so powerful to me, like as an only child, as I said, they were like my friends. And so, um, seeing how tarot could create a storytelling experience that lands for you.

In a different place. Like, it doesn't go straight to your mind. Like, you know, kind of like you were talking about being trained to just sort of like do all the stuff from the neck up. 

Kylie Patchett: Yep. 

Cecily Sailer: Yep. And so I think tarot lands for us like more in the gut or the soul or the heart. I'm not sure exactly where. And so for writers, who I was thinking primarily about because I had done a creative writing program and then I worked in nonprofits that were related to, um, writing and libraries and stuff like that.

I, [00:40:00] it occurred to me that using the cards could be very generative when you get stuck in a creative practice. You know, I, my specialization in graduate school is fiction and I had this background in journalism and I think my imagination was just not, it's not as rich as yours perhaps. And so I don't know, not anymore anyway.

Well, You must, you still have it. Um, but it felt difficult to like generate a fully imagined character. And that makes sense. Like there's so much, it's hard to even know yourself fully, much less like someone you made up. So I could see Tarot as a way to like bring ideas into the conversation or help fill in some of those gaps or even show a plot line where like, I love playing with the language.

And I love imagery, but creating plot was not really something I was very good at. And so I think the cards, if you want to use them in that way, can sort of map out something. And so that creative load isn't completely on you. And I think Because of the training we get, we try to just figure it out mentally and like solve the problem.

But there are other places and sources where the answers can come. And I think tarot can, yeah, like help fill in some of those, those spaces, but also just using it, um, will connect you to this notion that you're talking to something bigger than yourself and that you're moving from a more intuitive place, which is a great thing.

which we also don't know that's trained out of us as well. So when we come back to that kind of intuitive movement, I think we can solve problems differently in our creative work. So it kind of has a really multi pronged. 

Kylie Patchett: I am 

Cecily Sailer: loving all of this 

Kylie Patchett: because as you're talking, So I, um, I will [00:42:00] often, like, if I'm writing copy for someone else, I will have already met, met them obviously.

And, um, often for a half day session, if we're doing a big project together and I get a feel for, um, I've spoken about this before on the podcast, but like a color or a texture or a sensation that I can kind of tap back into and write from their perspective. Um, but Sometimes, not always, but sometimes I get, I don't know, a little bit stuck with the starting point.

Like there's a piece of me that's a bit, and I don't even know whether that's partially like an ADHD, like a, uh, what is that? Um, goodness me, I've got no words this morning. Um, the thing that stops you from starting something like that demand thing, anyway, demand avoidance is what I'm trying to say. Um, but what I've found is that even if I can.

The day before I've got a big day of writing for someone, like if it's a web copy, for instance, even if I can just do the shittiest shittiest first draft dot points, the next morning, if I'm responding to something, there is no avoidance. And as you're talking, I'm like, so basically. the way that I, um, that I see that I could use tarot is it's something to respond to.

So it's a felt sense response rather than because the avoidance comes from my brain. It's not a, it's not a body sensation. It's the, my brain. And it's often The perfectionist, although like, you know, I really want this to be amazing for this person, like that kind of, which of course is all just striving mentality.

And if you just tap into your heart and do it, it's actually way more magic than what your brain could ever make it. Um, so yeah, I feel like that, that you have just given me another tool to tap into because it's the response that like, if you, if you ask me a question, I can respond. If I have to come up with something from [00:44:00] scratch, sometimes there's some resistance there.

And I think that that is hard. I think that's a generator thing as well. If you go through a human design lens is like we are responders. Um, I want to talk to you about, so if someone's just getting started, cause I know you've got a workbook too, that I want to talk about because on your website, you, we have an ability to access the first kind of three prompts workbook.

Talk, um, tell us about. The workbook that you have, which you just showed me is so beautiful. I'm getting a copy. Um, so yeah, tell us about that. 

Cecily Sailer: Yeah, thank you. It's a juicy fat workbook that has journaling prompts for every card in the tarot. So when I started, Or what I just, you know, when I had that encounter with Tarot and then I was like, I'm going to learn this.

I just kind of got encyclopedic about it and got a notebook and started like taking notes from books and podcasts and trying to kind of memorize and then. I started practicing and that's where things became more fluid. And that's where the learning really deepened because you're more present rather than trying to like recall something like some historical date, you know, that doesn't have a lot of meaning to you.

And so, um,

I w you know, I, once I. Kind of had this experience with tarot. I also wanted other people to understand it's more accessible than you think. Yes. And anyone can use it if they want to. And then, um, I mean this developed, the book developed in the last couple years. So I had been reading and teaching tarot for a little while and wanted to offer people a different approach that was self-centered.

Yeah. So [00:46:00] that. The questions not only help you connect with aspects of yourself that you may not be thinking about very much, but then also connect them with the cards so that the cards immediately have some kind of personal significance for you. I love that. And that you can take your time with it, um, go a bit more slowly.

Yeah. And yeah, I really have this conversation with the tarot and there's also illustrations. There's also creative prompts. Um, a lot of the questions are come from the kinds of things I might ask my clients in a session. So it's meant to both. Provide self discovery and then also build your relationship with Tarot.

Kylie Patchett: Do you know, as you're talking, I, cause I feel like, um, I'm kind of coming back to the box thing again, versus the playful way of self discovery, because it feels to me like. a playground of self discovery, like a light, lighter touch way of connecting to yourself and connecting to cards and forming that.

Um, so kind of feeling more like the deck is a tool, you know, a creativity and, and self connection tool rather than, because I feel like. Would you agree that the stickiness sometimes around tarot is that it's putting like this, it's assigning the power to something outside of us rather than saying this is a tool to connect unseen with us.

It's not. Like it's not like it's not outsourcing your power. Would you agree with that? 

Cecily Sailer: Yeah. I mean, I think it has that perception among some people as this fortune telling. Yes. That's what I mean. Like, here's what's going to happen. Um, I was doing readings at a Halloween party recently and a woman like sat down and she wanted to know if she was, you know, Like she'd been with her husband for like 15, [00:48:00] 16 years and things were going okay.

Like they'd been working on some stuff and that seemed to be like going pretty well, but she was like, but is there like another relationship for me? She was kind of asking if she was going to leave her husband and I'm like, Do you want to leave? Yeah, exactly. Like 

Kylie Patchett: that, that, that is your decision. 

Cecily Sailer: Yeah.

Kylie Patchett: And we pulled 

Cecily Sailer: some cards and then she's like, yeah, but are you telling me yes or no? That's right. And then we got to a car. I was like, we had this reading, there was one more card. She was still on this, like, yeah, but, and I was like, do you want another card? And she was like, yeah. And so we pulled a card and it was the chariot, but in this.

in this particular card, it was a woman in a car driving away from the viewer. And I was like, well, there's your visible indication. Yes. But then seeing that she sort of backpedaled and she was like, well, I guess it'll be up to me. And I was like, this is hilarious, but yes, I think there is that perception.

The tarot is going to tell you what's going to happen, or it's going to like show you a bad thing in the future that you don't want to know about. And, um, What I that's not how I use it. What I You know, yeah, like you said, it's a way for us to like pick up the phone and have a conversation with our unconscious or with our higher self or with our future self or with our ancestors or our spiritual team, like however you want to think about it.

And usually it will validate some things you're already thinking and feeling and it will show you some options and possibilities. That you can choose because you always have free will to go forward in a way where you feel more self assured or you feel like okay, it's not just I'm not crazy for wanting this.

I'm not like way out of my mind. Cause I'm not doing what all my friends are doing. Like in a spiritual sense, I'm actually on the [00:50:00] right path and here's some places I can take that. And so it really. To me gives you access to some information and some insight that you're just not going to get from like, even the great advice your friends give you, or, or maybe it will validate the great advice.

Kylie Patchett: You're just reminding me of, um, When my kids were younger, um, 19 and 20 now, but especially my younger one, she'd be like, I don't know whether this is the right thing, or this is the right thing. And so I'd always just choose one and go, well, I'm telling you, you have to do that. And because of course, then you've got something to respond to.

So she's like, but I don't want to do that. I'm like, there's your answer. It's kind of like the lady with the, but I don't want to be in the chariot driving away. There's your answer. I love it. I love it. I love it. Um, Coming back to the workbook. Um, first of all, is it, have I got it right? It's Tarot for Creative Spirits is the workbook.

Yes. Beautiful. And if someone wants to start with that kind of playful More lighter touch to the self discovery and using tarot. Would you recommend that they start with, um, a standard tarot deck or can you start with any, like, what, what would be your kind of, if we were going to say tarot 101 entry point, if we got the workbook, where would we like, what deck would we be using?

Cecily Sailer: Yeah, I, I started with the Smith weight deck, the very well known deck that came out in the early 1900s. And my reason for doing that was because most of the writing and the podcast I was going to encounter would reference those images. So that's where I started. I don't think you have to start there, but I do think it's good to have, if you're really new, I would make sure the deck, like the art in the deck feels like it activates something for you.

So if you're looking at the images and you're kind of like, I don't, not getting a lot here, or like, [00:52:00] I don't really feel the vibe. I think decks do have personalities and they have kind of like different voices and tones of voice and sense of humor. Yes. And some can be a little like harsher with you.

I've had a deck that's just like hardcore. I've got a bossy deck. 

Kylie Patchett: Yeah. Really bossy deck. It's like if you want a clear black and white answer pick one of those. 

Cecily Sailer: Yeah. So I mean it takes a minute to kind of figure it out. The vibe and feel into that, but I recommend definitely choosing. like art that feels like it does something for you.

And also there are some decks where the minor arcana cards, which are like the pentacles, the wands, the cups, and the swords where they will not have human, or they will not have. It'll just be the symbols. It'll just be like seven cups or it'll be nine swords or whatever. And if you're starting with that, that's really not going to give you any sense of story.

So I would 

just make sure that all the cards are kind of illustrated with something that evokes a little bit of story for you. 

Kylie Patchett: Yes. Um, something else that I would say too, um, because the deck that I started with was not in alignment to the original, original deck. So it's got extra major Ocana cards and things, and that can make learning as a beginner a little bit more tricky because then you can't just pick up any tarot reference, you know, reference or resource.

Um, so I would say like, yeah, understand that the traditional. four suits. Like if they're not called the same thing, just be really clear with what equals what so that you can, because like, I've got like the deck that we were just looking at before, which is, which is wisdom is earth. water, air, fire, instead of the cups, et cetera.

Um, but now that I've connected to lots of other decks, I understand that, but if it was a new person, they'd be like, but what you're talking about cups and yeah. [00:54:00] Um, can we have a little play? Can we do some, can we pull a couple of cards? Would you like to use a deck of yours though? Um, like if we did either way, whatever, whatever you like, let's go.

Could you mind playing with these? Yeah, it's a beautiful deck. So anyone that's watching the video version of this, I will show you a couple of cards. This is the Witch's Wisdom deck from, I just told you the name and I've completely forgotten. Phyllis, Phyllis Courot, C U R O T T. But I picked this deck specifically from the illustrations because it's very nature based and lots of beautiful colour.

Look at that one. Witch of water. 

They're 

just really, really pretty. Um, what sold me on these was there's a card. I can't even remember what card it is, but it's got pomegranates all over it. And I was having a bit of a pomegranate moment and I was like, right, this is my deck. Oh, there's another one.

Beautiful. So pretty. So pretty. Um, all right. Well, what, what, um, how, how would you, what would you like us to pull for? Do we have a question? What do you think would be best? 

Cecily Sailer: Do you want to ask anything about your creativity or do you want something more general for the listeners? Here we go. 

Kylie Patchett: Um Do you know what I would, Oh, hang on.

This comes out after that. I just feel like at the time of recording, there's a lots of, um, messages in the collective about this being a really heavy time in the, you know, unfolding of the world. And I'm like, I would rather look at a more positive slant to that change. Um, let's do it anyway, because this will come out early 2025.

So let's just do, I don't know, what do you, what do you want to, What do you want to do? How about three? Three. All right. I'm not a very good shuffler. Sorry, everybody. It's not a very good thing to be doing on a very [00:56:00] sensitive microphone, I guess. 

Cecily Sailer: I think it's good to hear the sound and just a note for everyone that you can shuffle how you want.

You can pick your cards however you want. I recommend not messing with the reverse cards for a while like just focus on even if they come up upside down just Um, 

Kylie Patchett: and for people that aren't sure what we're even talking about, there's definitely schools of reading that say upside down as a very different, like it's a flip side basically of the right way up.

Um, but I would agree. I still don't read reverse. Um, because I just think, Oh my God, let's just go with, you know, all right. Um, that's funny how you say, you know, Pick however you want, because I was trained and this is another box. This is a very good example of a box or a system. When I first learned to read, it was always cut the deck three times with your left hand and choose three cards with your left hand.

So I'm going to not do that. Okay. Yeah. You don't have to do that. So first card, wisdom keeper. So number 17, second card. Ooh. Whoopsie. Ooh. Ooh. I'm holding these up for anyone that's on video. Um, Moo, Moore, Beautiful, and, ooh, Craftsman of Fire. So when we say fire, that would be What is that? So one. Sorry. Nope.

Okay. Ooh. Beautiful. That wisdom keepers are pretty. So for people that are listening to the audio version, I'll give you a little idea of, so the wisdom keeper is an indigenous person sitting cross legged in front of a tent like structure. There's a dog asleep in front of. I don't [00:58:00] actually know whether it's gender specific.

I think it's actually not gender specific. They have a necklace with some bone or some other organic matter attached to it and in front of them they've got leaves, bones, a mushroom, a rock, two feathers. Bowl of water, et cetera. It's very detailed. The moon was two wolves, one howling and one being really chill with a beautiful crescent moon reflected on water with irises or daffodils either side.

And final one craftsman of fire is a, what do you call those people? Blacksmith. clinking away in front of a fire, bare chested on a, um, what are they called? Horseshoe. I don't know why I can't speak today. All right. Over to you, Cecily. 

Cecily Sailer: Beautiful, beautiful cards, beautiful description. Thank you. Yeah. So seeing the wisdom keeper, I think so in your deck, it's numbered 17.

And if we correlate that to tarot, it would be the star. And I really, I think it's really interesting. I really want to focus on the image that you have and the archetype that's presented. But it makes me think that listening to the people who hold the wisdom and you and I are, you know, you were speaking about it, uh, at the beginning of our conversation that like our indigenous, um, neighbors and, uh, Yeah, fellow humans know a great deal about caring for the earth and what's really important in life, not just money and acquisition of property and capitalism and blah, blah, blah.

Um, but those wisdom keepers can take many forms in our lives. [01:00:00] uh, you know, intimate sphere that can be like an elder. Um, but also, you know, the people who work with plants and work with the land and the people who are, um, the scientists, you know, the people who are studying things for quite a long time and noticing patterns.

And, you know, my hope is that those wisdom keepers would get more attention. But, um, and that their wisdom would be heated. I don't know if that's going to start happening more in a few months or not. It may come to a kind of point where we're very lost and we don't know what to do. And finally, you know, we listen a bit more.

Um, But I think, like, tapping into longer timelines, I think we feel this, like, building crisis. 

Yes. 

Cecily Sailer: You know, I'm in the U. S., so, like, the election is next week, and there's this impending dread for so many of us about what's going to happen, and there's that, like, political crisis we're looking at. I think we're also feeling the climate crisis, which is, both of which are bringing, like, kind of, uh, I mean, on the political end, there's something familiar there.

There's something that's like a recycling of old things, but we're also at this level of it that is just so, um, imposing and pervasive. And I think we get really caught up in the moment and like what's happening right now. And we tend to forget that humans have been here for tens of thousands of years longer than we Yeah.

I think even realized and, um, there is wisdom still remaining. That isn't just modern that we can access. And I think it's time to probably start thinking about those longer timelines. Those. older ways of living. I think we're going to have to return to them one way or another. Definitely. And then the pendulum 

Kylie Patchett: is very much 

Cecily Sailer: at the tipping [01:02:00] point 

Kylie Patchett: at the moment.

Cecily Sailer: Yeah. 

Kylie Patchett: Is 

Cecily Sailer: there anything else you, I'll say more about the others, but is there anything else you see? I feel like I 

Kylie Patchett: definitely get the slower pace and the, I just keep on coming back to the sleeping dog. It's like the, there isn't actually a rush. Like there is no, like when you say like longer timelines, I feel like.

Everything is so immediate in its demand these days, like social media and email and whatever, but, but even the way that we. Or most of us approach like growing businesses. And it's like, but it's like, if you just tap into the fact that this magic will unfold when it's meant to, as it's meant to, and there's that equal and opposite be in the now, but not necessarily reacting to everything that's demanding of your attention, because most of it actually doesn't matter.

Um, and I do feel like there's, um, like not being in the U S around election, like I don't actually watch the news. So I'm so out of the bubble of anything. Um, but even then, because I have clients in the U S I've had lots of conversations. No, not lots, but a few conversations and, and people are very, feel very charged and particularly the type of work that, um, these few clients do, like it is.

very connected to breaking of systems. And obviously, you know, elections are a huge part of that. Um, but to me, it's just the slower, yeah, tapping into the felt sense. And that there's actually an ancestral sort of feeling to me as well. 

Cecily Sailer: Yes. Yes. And they're, they're so focused on. They're, they seem to be making earth magic and, you know, collect, connecting [01:04:00] with, they're sitting on the ground, connecting with plants, rocks, bones.

Kylie Patchett: Yeah. Very organic. And there's a herd behind them as well, which are kind of like, I don't know, there's connecting to land. There's definitely land and all connection. Yeah. The beautiful card. I've never pulled that one before. So there you go. Very cool. New to me. 

Cecily Sailer: And then you have the moon, which I think.

Is feels appropriate, like feeling into the future to the extent I can. I think we're, the moon is a very. It can be a very disorienting card, kind of like you're inside of a dream where things just feel very strange. It's like, is this really happening? Like, is this, is this going on? And a lot of unconscious material can be coming up for examination, um, also like intuitive connection.

So I imagine I could see how the coming year 2025 will feel like. What is this reality? How do we navigate this? Like the world is changing so quickly. I'm disoriented and I can see how the Wisdom Keeper can really function as an anchor. Like a guide. When we're in the moon vibes. 

Kylie Patchett: Feels very watery too.

Like that very. Yeah. Emotional depths, mystery. Yeah. Unseen, unknown.

Also never picked that one. 

Cecily Sailer: How bizarre. Yeah. And more dogs. We have other canines. Um, and then you have the Craftsman of Fire, which could be the page 

Kylie Patchett: or 

Cecily Sailer: the 

Kylie Patchett: night. I think it might be the night. I could work it out, but anyway, we'll just go with whatever we intuitively think. [01:06:00] 

Cecily Sailer: Yes, we'll just read that as it looks, but I think we're gonna, you know, need to practice the skills that, um, help us, I don't know, live and survive.

Like there's in that card, you know, that's a craft that is now performed by like heavy machinery and, um, 

Cecily Sailer: yeah, I think there's, I don't know. Like, I also feel this in my own life. Like, I wish I knew more. I was a better gardener. I knew how to build things. Um, I wish I knew how to filter water or like capture sunlight and turn it into energy.

Um, yeah, I think that practicing either, you know, if we read it with the other cards, the wisdom keeper and the moon, maybe practicing and becoming even stronger in our skills around connecting with older wisdom, attuning to ancient wisdom, our capacity to feel what we're experiencing rather than trying to shut that off.

Um, I think our ability to feel what's happening or like feel our reaction to what's happening is going to be really important. And then just the kind of skills of like, Getting along with your neighbors or finding out like how, um, who knows how to do this? Like, I definitely think everyone needs to know an herbalist.

Yes, I know. Oh my goodness. 

Kylie Patchett: Yeah. And people 

Cecily Sailer: who know how to grow food. 

Kylie Patchett: Yeah. Well, we, we do grow our own food. That's one thing we do. And we also have just this week connected our boar. We've got a boar in our backyard that's never had a pump in it. So we have, um, discovered that we have. Four hours of spring clean vegetable garden, accessible water, um, that is actually clean enough.

And like we had it tested and everything, it's actually drinking. So we can fill our tank if we need to. Um, it's interesting as you're [01:08:00] talking, I'm feeling like less reliance on the system and more reliance on self and neighbors and community. Um, and all almost like a devotion to craft, right? Like you, you don't get to the stage of being able to hammer something into what you would like without hours.

You know, hours in, yeah, of mastery and practice and it's interesting in the background of this car there's two swords hanging up and one of those like curved, is it a sickle, kind of, and then two, um, what are those things called? Barrels, kind of. Yes. Yes. It's like what are you storing in those barrels?

Are you completely self sufficient? I want to know, is there grain in there? So funny, isn't it? Um, that's a perfect example though of how you're saying like to read it as a story, which I have, I think when I very first learned, that's probably what I was taught, but these days I'm more often will just pull a card.

So you've just reconnected me back to that. Yeah. The storytelling across an arc of something. 

Cecily Sailer: I think it's great to start with one card holes and. Pull at the beginning of the day and maybe just look at the card for a full minute. Don't reach for the guidebook right away. And just like, look at what you notice, notice how your body is reacting.

Notice any feelings or memories that come up, maybe journal for five or 10 minutes and then go about your day and Kind of think about that card at the end to see if it had any connection for you and yeah, and maybe then if you want to look at the guidebook, but I really discourage people from just like picking that up because it's just another version of like looking elsewhere for [01:10:00] an answer just another box.

Yeah. When Tarot can really help you develop. your connection with your own wisdom. So, and then, you know, practicing from there, it's good to pull a couple and just see like what connections you notice, what story is there. Yeah. But it's endlessly fascinating 

Kylie Patchett: to me. I'm going to be fascinated to read back, listen back to this in January after given that we're recording at the end of October.

Um, okay. Where can people find you? And also, as we were talking about, um, the workbook, the first three prompts are available on your website as a, like an opt in. Um, so where are you on the interwebs? 

Cecily Sailer: Yes, I am at typewriter tarot. com or on Instagram at typewriter tarot. I have a sub stack as well, where I share some autobiographical writing prompts that are inspired by the cards and some monthly tarot scopes.

And that's typewriter tarot. substack. com. But yeah, if you go to typewriter tarot. com. And the email opt in, you'll get the first three prompts from the book. That's the fool and the magician and the high priestess. 

Kylie Patchett: Oh, I'm obsessed with the Empress at the moment. I'm not obsessed. She picked me this year. I was asking for my word and she's like, it's me.

And I'm like, no, it's not. I'm not the Empress. And then I was. Yes. Anyway. So that's the archetype. That's all over my office, all over in front of me, everything. So yeah, I love it. Oh, thank you so much. This has been so fun. So, so fun. And I just, um, encourage anyone listening who, as we're talking about creativity and magic and accessing connection to self, if it all sounds like it's kind of a little bit alien or something that you haven't [01:12:00] experienced or felt for yourself to go and, you know, I would, I would just go and buy the workbook personally, but if you want to start with opt in, that's fine as well.

But yeah, just have something to respond to if you're not, if you're not a person, like we were just talking about that can kind of Imagine from scratch, you'll come up with, you know, understanding of yourself from scratch. Um, having those journal prompts to be like an entry point to developing that is, is such a powerful thing for so many people.

Um, what would you say the only thing that's kind of pinging in my head is I'm, I'm hearing a friend of mine go, but I hate journaling. Do you get those people? Can you talk the prompt that 

Cecily Sailer: loud? Oh, yeah, I guess you could. I think, yeah, I can see. similar to, you know, what you were saying when you have to start writing something and you're just looking at this blank page and you're like, what do I do?

What am I, I don't know what I want to say, which is why I create the prompts to help you find that entry point or start somewhere. And I do think that journaling is, I think it also helps like clear the channel. And, you know, so people who are doing. Morning pages, like that's a beautiful way to start the day and just sort of dump out your thoughts and get them out of the way so you can move forward with whatever you have to do.

And I also think it's really clarifying. Like sometimes I'll be, you know, maybe it's on page two or three after getting through some other stuff that I really notice this truth or this, you know, Uh, thing that I want or this fear that's mm-hmm. Holding me back, but it's not immediately at the front of my mind.

And we're very layered humans. We have a lot of complex overlapping things going on Yes. In our [01:14:00] psychology. And so it's really interesting to find how, I think journaling can help us see connections that we're not noticing. And really bring things into our awareness that once they're there, we can do something with them.

And 

Kylie Patchett: yeah, totally agree. I totally agree. I, I again, resist journaling a lot, but when I do it, Like on repeat, I'm so much clearer and more centered in myself. Um, a journaling prompt that I started this year, very early in the year, um, I heard Elizabeth Gilbert talk to somebody on her podcasts and it was their response to her, um, love.

What would you have me know today? Journal prompt. So she actually talks to and journals from. Unconditional love to herself as an entry point and then unfolds from there. And that, that was actually, um, especially when I was very stuck in this kind of loop of theory sort of stuff earlier on in the year, that was a good.

Access point, because it was completely different to where I was, you know, energetically and mindset wise. And so love was like the opposite of the voice that I was hearing a lot of inside. Um, but then, yeah, it was a good, it was just an entry point. Like you were saying, like, it's just a, yeah. It's to find the access point and then empty out and then, yeah, it's like, Oh, this is what's under the surface.

Oh, I see. No wonder I haven't been blah, blah, blah. 

Anyway. 

Yes. Thank you. Such a juicy conversation. What a joy. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much. 

Cecily Sailer: It's wonderful to talk to you. Thank you for having me. No worries. Thank you. Bye bye.

Kylie Patchett: Thanks for tuning in to Wild and Finally Fucking Free. I'm Kylie, your host, and Given that I know you would have enjoyed this episode, please do us a favor and [01:16:00] subscribe, leave a review, and share it with fellow freedom seekers. Remember, being seen in all our mess and magic helps heal ourselves and the world.

Because the world needs more world and finally fucking free humans. Have a great day.