Kirstin Bouse is a Clinical Psychologist with nearly three decades of experience. Over the past fifteen or so years, she’s worked with women as they navigate big transitions in their lives—motherhood, divorce, and perimenopause.

6 years into her own perimenopause experience, Kirstin became super frustrated by the lack of recognition of the significance of perimenopause and midlife in general.

Kirstin says the reality is that midlife is pretty bloody full-on. From the hormonal drama that unfolds for many to the life events that happen during these years and to FINALLY caring less what other people think, midlife tends to be quite a ride.

In this podcast ep we chat about:

• The clusterfckery of Kirstin's own perimenopause + burnout + late ADHD diagnosis journey and how it's provided HUGE drive to educate and gather meno-aware health practitioners through her business and health professionals community All About Her Centre
• How so many health professionals - including Kirstin's own GP and gynaecologist - are not perimenopause aware, which means women are not being supported the way they need to be
• Kirstin's personal lightbulb moment when she realised she was complaining about sleep - just like her Mum did during perimenopause
• how the drive for autonomy and values-driven contribution are significant motivations for midlife health professionals to join the All About Her community
• how perimenopause, although painful and uncomfortable can also provide the disruption that invites us to re-evaluate our lives, and question conditioning around roles and responsibilities
• the psychological stages of menopause that no one is talking about, and how it is so much more than the physical stuff

Find Kirstin on the Gram at @the_midlife_psychologist and the All About Her Centre for Menopause online at www.allabouthercentre.com.au

 

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TRANSCRIPT - Summer Series S5E3: Designed for Disruption with Kirstin Bouse

Kirstin Bouse: [00:00:00] I don't feel my like myself. And the next kind of sentences are, well, of course, because you're having hot flashes and you're not sleeping well, it goes back to the physical symptoms. And I'm like, no, there is something far, far deeper going on.

Kylie Patchett: Welcome to the wild and finally fucking free podcast show. This is a space where truth talking gets real behind the scenes. Grit of the future humans is laid bare and we are celebrating and sharing the real world stories of change agents, neuro sparkly people, the witchy wild women, the deep feelers, the unapologetic senses, the status quo challenges, and the huge hearted healers and helpers.

And guiding you through this wild ride of entrepreneurship and full heart led contribution to the world is me, your host, Kylie Patchett, AKA KP. I am a proudly neuro sparkly natural born status quo challenger, and I thrive on helping disruptors rebels and revolutionaries find their voices, amplify their message into the world and harness their raw potential.

Alchemise it into unleashing your full potency. Not only will I be sharing the behind the scenes of some of the most amazing, most status quo challenging thought leaders, I'll also be lifting the veil behind my own business. In 2024, I 18x'd my monthly income. Still blows my mind to say that. And this year I am leaning into how joyful and fun it would be to shift from six figures to seven figures in a quantum shifting year.

All through leading from my full unapologetic voice, my unleashed potency, and with my big wildly lit up heart leading the way. Every single step of the way. So we are going to share the mess and the magic, the [00:02:00] tea on identity shifting behind thought leadership. So together with my guests, I am going to be sharing the mess and the magic, spilling the tea on the identity shifts behind stepping into thought leadership, breaking the ties that bind us.

On learning old patterns and reweaving brand new ways of living, loving, learning, and leading. We're here to break boundaries, reimagine what's possible, all while collapsing timelines and leading with joy, love, and our fiercest wild woman selves. This is not just a podcast. It is a rebellion. It is a revolution.

It is an invitation to join the Mad Hatter's collective movement. And by Mad Hatters, I mean all the colourful, creative, gorgeous, world changing, out of the box humans out there. If you've ever longed to be wild and finally fucking free, this is your sign to lean in. Let's get started.

Kylie Patchett: Hello, hello, hello, my love. Kylie here. Happy, happy new year. You are just about to dive into a very special summer series episode because I worked all the way through Christmas and New Year but I'm taking some space and grace because I'm just about to turn 50. So, whilst I'm offline, enjoying and celebrating and marinating in stepping into a whole new decade, we have chosen a few of our favorite episodes.

And here is one, enjoy. May your new year be full of everything you need, want, and desire. And I will see you, or you will hear from me on the other side of the Festival of 50. Let's dive in.

Kylie Patchett: Hello, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. I have one of my favorite people on the planet with me today. Hello, Miss Kirstin Bouse. How are [00:04:00] you? I, 

this is long overdue. 

Kirstin Bouse: It is. Busy schedules and things. Um, I'm, I'm really good. The sun is shining here in Perth. Yeah. Adding to you. We can chat. We literally 

Kylie Patchett: have just chatted for almost an hour before 

Kirstin Bouse: you press record.

You know, you know what I think, um, of you and your skill at drawing out the things that are in my head and making gold. So yeah, I've been looking forward to this for a long time. So thank you. 

Kylie Patchett: So good. I, I'm actually, I really love how time always unfolds as it should, because we've been trying it like we book it and then no, it doesn't work, doesn't work.

And then here we are at this kind of new stage, which we'll get to. Um, but for those of you who don't, for those who don't already know your lovely self, could you introduce yourself please? 

Kirstin Bouse: Sure. I always find this such a difficult 

Kylie Patchett: kind of. Can I, can I introduce you then? Yeah, I would love to introduce you because I was okay.

Kirstin Bouse is a psychologist, clinical psychologist with many decades of experience who has, I'm actually not sure about the timeframe, but we'll get to that in a second. So has positioned herself very specifically now in the midlife metamorphosis perimenopause to menopause space, and has so much gold to share about not just the.

Not the physical stuff. I mean, it's informed by the physical stuff, but when we're talking about perimenopause, we hear so much information about the physical stuff and a little bit about the emotional, a little bit about the cognitive, but no one else is talking about this massive psychological shift that happens that is as momentous and Challenging and rewarding and profound as the transition into puberty or through puberty into adulthood.

So, and also [00:06:00] founder of All About Her Center for Menopause. Yeah. And has just sold a business. Very exciting. How did I do? What else would you like to add? 

Kirstin Bouse: No, I think, I think you've nailed, um, all the key, all the, um, yeah, all of those, all of those things. I have been around for a long time. Um, and, um, I guess, you know, it's interesting that I'm in the perimenopause space now and I feel really like I I've often felt my career's been driven by a vocation.

And always, you know, it's not been a job for me, it's, it's very much been a calling. And each time I've been called in different spaces, um, to move into different spaces and the perimenopause, menopause, midlife, whatever you want to call it, they're kind of usually, let's just put it out there. Sometimes clusterfuck anyway, that's my favorite word for it.

Um, yeah, definitely called. Um, you know, I've just been called to work in this space and what's really amazing is yes, I have just sold a business as you know, I've sold my group psychology practice, which I had for 18 years. I didn't realize it was that 

Kylie Patchett: long. Congratulations. We, I don't think I've ever actually said congratulations, but what an amazing achievement to build something and then be able to pass it along to someone else.

Kirstin Bouse: I know, and, and I mean, it, it never occurred to me on until more recently that I had actually built something that was even sellable, you know? 

Kylie Patchett: Mm-Hmm. . 

Kirstin Bouse: So it's been very validating for me because it's no mean feat to run any kind of business. And, um, as you bring people into the business to work for you, you know, it just adds layer and layer of risk, responsibility, challenges, and all the rest.

So, yeah. I actually do feel pretty chuffed with myself that I managed to create something that I 

was able [00:08:00] to sell and it feels very much like the right time for me to be doing that. Um, I'm a bit of a, I'm a bit of a midlife cliche really. I love it. Selling the business is just one of those classic examples of stepping back and looking at my life and thinking, hang on a minute, this doesn't fit for me anymore, allow me to pursue the things that I want to pursue.

And that, that was really, really difficult. Like, I mean, I recognize that, but to actually action it and put it into practice was huge. No, it was a, it was a two year journey to sell from perhaps the first few bites from some people then someone who, um, was, Really in it, boots and all. And, and of course we pulled it off.

Um, but I'd say even the year before, I was starting to kind of think, yeah, I don't think this is, um, you know, I don't think this is what I wanna be doing. And the work I had to do personally to give myself permission to sell was quite significant because I recognized I'd written, I, I know we're going off tangent here, but No, no, 

Kylie Patchett: no.

This is. This is brilliant. I mean, this show is all about tangents. Let's face it. 

Kirstin Bouse: I love it. This is where the gold is impossible not to, but I had this, I realized I'd made this unspoken and for a long time, unconscious contract 

Kylie Patchett: that 

Kirstin Bouse: I would not leave my people that I just wouldn't, they had to leave first.

And so initially it came wrapped up just in the idea of as you get older, you're going to wind down, see less clients and then slowly but surely close your doors and you know, people will move on. And that was very conscious for me. But what I didn't realize is that one of the, The [00:10:00] things that sat underneath that particular picture was this idea of I can't leave them.

They have to leave me. This is such 

Kylie Patchett: a good conversation because the identity piece and you and I love your language. So unconscious contracts and it's unconscious contracts with ourselves, but also the contracts that we have been sold by our family, by our society, by our conditioning, bloody, bloody, bloody.

We talk about patriarchy all the time when we have a chat. But I, so what sort of, when you said personal work, what sort of, how did you start approaching that? Because we kind of, we're preempting one of the things we're going to talk about, but this is a perfect segue into it. 

Kirstin Bouse: Oh, I, I mean, the first. Thing was to even recognize that, that, that I had this contract was removing all the practical reasons why I couldn't sell.

So we're not removing that, but, you know, just kind of addressing them, addressing, dealing with them, do this, and I've got to do that. And, and what would it look like? And I, and I do think one of the barriers initially was like, well, who am I without this? I part of my identity. So that was absolutely like, You know, if I, I stepped into a void and I do remember speaking, um, quite at length to a colleague, um, about it and, and just really, just really saying to her, I can't action this until I know what my next step is.

And. Um, you know, in many basically I was, I just kept getting the feedback from her and another colleague as well. Um, so they're both relatively what I call woo woo. So they're both clinical sites, but they definitely have a very strong spiritual side. They essentially said to me, you are probably not going to be able to find the answer.

You're going to actually have to step into the void. Um, and that was terrifying for me because if there was one [00:12:00] area of my life that I had always Knowing what my next step was, was in my career. Yeah. I'm very typically ADHD career in, yes, I've had my group practice for 18 years. Yes. I've been a psychologist for 28, but the diversity within that, those, that is huge.

Um, and I would find that I would master something, you know, I'd kind of want to learn something new. I'd dive in. It became absolutely everything I was obsessed with. I do. I do. Quite a substantial period of time. And then I would start, it was not so much that I got bored. I would just start to find a new interest that was really starting to kind of be of, um, bigger magnitude to me and then into that kind of space.

And, and that happened, um, throughout my career. So as I said, I've always. No one where I was going before I had to let go of something. Yeah. And this, this was just, it really was a void. And I remember so many times saying, I, I just, I just can't do it. I just, I just can't sell the business. You know, I, I can't because what, what would I do?

And at that stage, I'd had a really tricky period of time, which, you know, for quite a long time. So I wasn't doing a lot of clinical work and I wasn't feeling up to doing a lot of clinical work. It was the first time in my career was about the 25 year mark I'd been working. And I was really just like, I am, I'm not up for this.

You know, perimenopause, burnout, late diagnosis, ADHD, all the things which we might go into a bit more later. They really brought me to my knees. Um, they shit show clusterfuck all those. 

Kylie Patchett: I'm relating hard all about all except the bit about keeping in a profession for that long. Anyway, everything else. 

Kirstin Bouse: Yeah.

Yeah. And. And. And. So for me, um, I, I didn't even have the sense of, [00:14:00] Oh, well, if I don't really know what I truly, truly want to do, I can fall back on my clinical work because I actually didn't feel as though I was in the headspace to do it. And again, that in itself, flawed me to get this far into my career and think I am not able to do this in the way I want to do it in the way I've done it.

I also didn't want to, which was really confronting. It was like, Oh yeah. What? Hang on a minute. Ridiculously disorienting period of time. And I sat in that space, I reckon for a good 18 months. It wasn't quick. Um, and you know, I just, yeah, it was a real, real struggle. And for me, it, it, I kind of got to the point where I had no, I had no choice, but to make the decision.

Um, and making the decision though, also didn't mean it happened straight away. Cause it's not easy to find a buyer and go through all of that kind of stuff. So I guess, I guess once I made the decision that I have to sell, I don't know what the hell I'm going to do. I just have to trust that it'll work out.

Kylie Patchett: Mm hmm. 

Kirstin Bouse: I will find a way I, you know, even if I'm stacking shelves at Coles with alongside my 17, then 17, this is what we're going to do. Yep. Nothing wrong with stacking shelves, but it's certainly not something that I thought I'd be doing. Um, at, you know, what was I then? It wasn't part of my expectation.

Although, geez, I fantasized about it at times. It sounded so, so much simpler. Um, and, you know, I guess everything kind of just unfolded from there, you know, once, once I made the decision, but I still didn't know what was going to be the other side of the decision for a period of time. And then as I allowed myself to ease into that and remove that kind of barrier, it's like, okay, I'm just have to take the dive.

That was then this contract, this unconscious contract, really immersion. And logically [00:16:00] I knew my psychs and my admin would be fine. Yeah. That either stay because it worked well for them with the new owner or they were more than capable and in demand to do, you know, then they're not going to be homeless and not able to put food on the table at home.

And I knew that, but it still just did not feel okay to, to breach this contract. Um, it felt like I was really letting them down. To pursue, you know, in, you know, to pursue my own interests, which just somehow felt so outlandish and, and self focused and, you know, it's, yeah, that 

Kylie Patchett: word outlandish, but it does, doesn't it?

Because I remember thinking to myself, Oh my God, I've never been so selfish before in my life. And it's like, um, there is actually a difference between. Selfish and self led, self directed, self loving, self compassionate, like they're two very different things. Um, yeah, but as you're talking, I want to ask, did you become aware when you realized that that was an unconscious contract?

Could you see that in other areas of life too? Like it was kind of rippling out as well? Or was it mainly this professional kind of thing? 

Kirstin Bouse: Um, not as strong in other areas of my life. I'm, I've always referred to myself as a no stone unturned person. Ah, I like it. And that means that I do turn every stone that I possibly have the ability to turn.

Um, and then I get to a point where. If there's no more stones to turn, I can walk away from things quite easily. Um, I don't, I'm not someone who would look back with regret or, you know, I should have, I could, you know, because I, I've usually exhausted [00:18:00] anything that was with my reasonable power to, um, to do instead of whatever the decision was.

So yeah, it, it, I mean, it plays out in a sense of. Having to turn every single stone. And I know people might bow out, check out whatever before I would in the same scenario, but I haven't stayed in scenarios, you know, what, you know, beyond what was tenable. Yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. 

Kylie Patchett: Gotcha. It's very interesting, isn't it?

Um, I want to go back to the late. So how on earth, when you find yourself at the intersection of burnout. Perimenopause and late diagnosis, ADHD. First of all, how the hell do you tease them apart? Because it feels like all of those things overlap, but what was that process like for you? And I'm guessing, well, I know that.

this personal clusterfuckery that you went through has really informed your calling to this particular type of work. And also actually what I want to mention before you answer that is previously as part of your kind of working with different cohorts in terms of psychology, you've also worked through the transition into motherhood, which I Always find fascinating because to me, it's like the identity shifts, like the folks in the road, the changing of the way you see yourself and the perspective and self identity.

Um, so yeah, I just wanted to mention that, but anyway, the triple threat. 

Kirstin Bouse: Yeah, well, I mean, look, my story is that I was burnt out, um, I think at the end of 2017 and I remember telling my then husband, I'm really burnt out. I've got to do something differently next year. I just can't, I can't keep going like this.

Unfortunately, he decided in the January. 2018 answer to that very helpfully was that was to, um, [00:20:00] check out. And, um, so, you know, there was no opportunity, I guess, uh, for my burnout to have. It's, I just ramped up, you know, um, we sold our house and we had two investment properties at the bottom of the market.

We made financial losses. I did not come out with a deposit to buy a new house or something like, you know, I know there were worse scenarios, but I couldn't have actually predicted a worse scenario for me in terms of how I thought my life was going to pan out. Um, with someone. For 16 years, you know, um, so yeah, I, I did what I do, which is work really, really hard and managed to kind of hang on.

Then of course COVID hits and that's mayhem for most, you know, for everyone mayhem in the practice as well. Yeah, of course. Demand for mental health services and things, but while they're the demands going through the roof, um, lots of people are leaving and setting up telehealth solo practice. You know, so that really, I guess that whole picture of working my ass off and then having, having problems I couldn't solve as a business owner, because they just were unsolvable, really, really kind of brought, it did bring me to my knees.

A significant step back from clinic work. Um, because when I thought about all the things that I had to do in my practice, you know, run the practice, manage people, supervise people, see clients and all of that. There was no one I could delegate some of those things to where clients could be handed over to us.

Gotcha. Yeah. So. Um, not only did I need to do that for my own wellbeing, I'd, I'd not been impacted. You know, my mental health had not been impacted by client stories and client distress ever in [00:22:00] my career. I would say that was still the case even then, but what was really beyond me was the level of focus.

Like basically client work is hyper focused. It's perfect for an ADHD who loves people. Yeah. Yeah. You're totally immersed in their world. But I was not able to give that because I was burnt out. So I wasn't able to be immersed in the world. Um, and that just was taking its toll. So it's not, it's not that I'm heartless either, but it's not been the stories that took the emotional toll on me.

It's the level of presence. Session after session after session Yeah, 

Kylie Patchett: because That's all bandwidth. Right. As you're talking, I'm like, Oh, that's like even some weeks. Like last week, I, I try and have one week, a month where I don't have active calls scheduled apart from with my team. 

Um, just 

because I know myself, I need that time to defrag to catch up, to do like, you know, really in depth client work, where I'm doing a lot of. Writing and I wanna do it in a stretch of time.

Um, and that didn't actually pan out last week, . And then I had other stuff going on, um, with medication shortages as we've talked about before. And, um, yeah, I just, I have really, really noticed that if I don't have that pattern interrupter, then the constant bandwidth requirement just gets completely untenable.

Um, and I do think that that is a combination of midlife. Changing resources emotionally, but also, um, Me being very honest, I'm just not willing to push myself in the way that I used to because the consequences far too severe. Whereas I used to in inverted commas, get away with it. Um, not really, but you know, now it's not so as you're talking like every single person it's, It's bandwidth and you're dealing with stuff in your personal life, as well as managing [00:24:00] leading people, the complexities of that.

Oh God, I'm actually feeling quite nauseous. 

Kirstin Bouse: It was, it was full on. So that's, that's what I stepped back from, because at that stage it was no one else to kind of make the decisions that a business has to make and think through those things. And Also wasn't able to, um, I needed legally to be providing supervision to my early career.

I Couldn't outsource that because it's just too expensive to ask. So, so that, that kind of led to that, but, you know, I, I guess what was happening at the same time, which I did not know at the time. Of course, 

Kylie Patchett: which is why you're so passionate about what you do now. 

Kirstin Bouse: You know, and, um, you know, to put some context around that, I had a hysterectomy kept, everything was taken out, but my ovaries.

So I didn't go into immediate menopause, but I was 42 and it was only six months later when my marriage ended. And I mean, we now know that, uh, I think a meta analysis was released earlier this year that really confirmed that you stopped Perry. You hit menopause, you know, earlier, um, even when you freeze, but if you've had this kind of surgery that I've had, I, I didn't know that, you know, um, at the time.

And so I'm starting to, you know, get these, of course I'm fatigued. My mood is low, brain fog, all of that stuff. My GP's known me for a long time. Understandably, both of us are just thinking burnout. It's just, you know, Of course, because there's so many 

Kylie Patchett: things that tell that COVID with excitement? Yes, well I did because I was still working because I was in HDS.

I was like the world just kept turning 

Kirstin Bouse: for me. Yeah, that was not the case for me. But, um, you know, I, my GP has, was really fantastic and in supporting me through what was a very emotionally difficult time for me. Um, for sure, but she wasn't perimenopause informed. And so, you know, by this stage, I'm also in a new relationship, [00:26:00] which was awesome.

That was just like new relationships are great. Just the perfect thing in marriage and is to have another relationship and then you find it. It's all very, you know, there's your dopamine. Um, and so that was really. So that was really, really great. But all these symptoms were still happening and, you know, she couldn't explain it and then she sent me to the gynecologist who'd done the surgery.

He couldn't need, no one was really answering this kind of stuff. Um, and I'll be super, you know, transparent that one of the most significant symptoms was five dry vagina. God. Okay. Brain fog. Get it. Low mood. Get it. Poor sleep. Get it. All of those things are part and parcel of burnout. But you know, where is this particular symptom kind of coming?

Hang on a minute. With my history. And so, um, I mean, I was prescribed antidepressants for my brain. That'll, that'll help you the most. They'll be more, way more effective. Um, You know, yeah, to help with the brain fog and the low mood and stuff like that. Hey, took them, hated them, came off them. And so I kind of, I guess, struggled for a couple of years.

And it was only when I was having a bit of a whinge to my own kids about how crappy I was, you know, how crap my sleep was basically. And I said to them, But I sound just like Nan when she was my age and the penny dropped. And my mum was a nurse. And while from a generation perspective, they didn't talk widely about menopause.

It was something that in my family, we knew that she was going through menopause. The word did not exist then, but we knew. And so, you know, when, when I said that out loud to the kids and had that penny drop, you know, I'm so grateful that my mom did mention that to my sister and dad and I, because is when I was like, that's what I think this is for me.

So then I did my own research. And [00:28:00] again, took that back to my doctor. She still wasn't very convinced. Yeah. And it's just been a trial and error. And, um, I have found, um, a while ago now, a wonderful menopause, um, GA informed GP. Yep. And she's been fantastic. Having said that, what I will also add is that I bathed in Easter gel for about two years.

Yep. And only about four months ago. And I'd been saying to my GP for a while, I just don't think I'm absorbing this stuff. I just, I just. Don't feel any benefit from it whatsoever. Do the questionnaire every time I saw her and all the rest. Yeah. It's not changing. 

Kylie Patchett: I'm 

Kirstin Bouse: like, man, am I just expecting too much?

Is this just how it is at this age? You know? And I said to her, can you switch me to something else? She's like, Oh, but the supply issues, you know, I'm really, let's see if we can tweak this and tweak this. So we just persisted because of the supply issues. Yeah. Um, and in the end, she said, no, we're gonna, we're gonna just see what's going on.

So, um, she sent me four bloods. Um, and discovered that I had no oestrogen, like I was not absorbing anything when I was To start 

Kylie Patchett: you're bathing, 

Kirstin Bouse: rude. And because of that, we could also see that I was probably, you know, had been postmenopausal for a little while as well. So this one phone call about these blood tests kind of confirmed, yes, I wasn't absorbing oestrogen and oh, by the way, postmenopausal because of course, I didn't know you don't Yeah, you don't have that.

Um, and so we have switched, since switched to patches and we've had to up the dose, but we can, I can say that my blood tests show that I am absorbing it and I can, uh, well, I don't know whether it's because I'm moving further into post menopause and I'm feeling better or whether it is, you know, because the [00:30:00] estrogen is starting to kind of, um, obviously Yeah, yeah.

So yes, I would have increased my dose of patches. I'll have another round of tests just to see and, you know, we'll take it from there. And, and as I said, my, this, this GP is absolutely fabulous. I don't. Um, at all, hold it against it that I spent two years trialing, you know, no, cause there's shortage or pumps and testosterone now and all of that kind of stuff.

Um, you know, what is just infuriating is that we talked about patches a few times and each time she was just like, if I start you on that, you're just not going to be able to get it. Well, that's, that's where I am at the moment and so, you know, that's, that's super frustrating to me. But in amongst all this, I guess, in terms of where I'm at and what I'm really trying to pull off now in my professional life is it was a real shit show.

And what was interesting is despite, you know, not all my friends are psychologists. I will say a lot of them are, a lot of them aren't. Kind of handy at times. I know I was going 

Kylie Patchett: to say I can deal with a circle of psychologists as my buddies on Instagram voice memos. 

Kirstin Bouse: And um, so, you know, in amongst that my, my boys are starting to be diagnosed as ADHD ers.

And then of course I start to kind of, Oh, I see. I see some of this stuff and my eldest has a different dad to the younger ones. So it's like, I'm the common thread. Um, and then I spoke to some of my colleagues who are really across this particular space and they were like, Oh yeah, we, yeah, you're ADHD.

And I'm like, did you not think to tell me? 

Kylie Patchett: I had a conversation with a friend similar to that. She's like, Oh, you, you're raging ADHD. Always have been. And I'm like, Yeah. Would you not have told me that? 

Kirstin Bouse: You know, it would have been, it would have been nice to send the memo. I would have appreciated that.[00:32:00] 

Kylie Patchett: She's like, I thought you knew. I'm like, no.

Kirstin Bouse: It wasn't my area of expertise. Um, and anyway, so I went and got myself assessed and yes, very ADHD, but it probably took me about a year to really accept it. And I guess that's because I am that typical picture like yourself as well, where when you've managed to forge what you consider a successful career 

Kylie Patchett: and, 

Kirstin Bouse: and it's wrapped up in.

Now, 28 years as a psychologist, 18 years as a group practice owner, like that on the outside doesn't necessarily paint the picture of an ADHD er. Um, you have to drill down and when you look within the 28 years of, um, my career and then the 18, you know, you can see all the things, the different things that I've done because I need novel and interesting things to dive into and get very, very obsessed about.

Yep. And so, you know, eventually I kind of came to terms with that diagnosis and it really was my career that was the clincher for me in accepting it. And I wasn't really, it's not that I didn't want to be ADHD because it was a bad thing. I was actually like, Oh, I don't want to be, you know, jumping on a bandwagon.

And, and, you know, which I, I don't think that way anymore at all now, but, um, like even generally about a bandwagon, um, the time I was like, Oh, you know, is there, is, is it being overdiagnosed and all that kind of stuff. But when I really sat back and thought about particularly my career, and then I also realized Again, this is where burnout is super confusing because I was a reasonably organized woman at home when I was married.

Mm. I did lion's share of everything. Yeah. I'd be years and years into being a single parent, I'd think, why can I, my kids are on the same freaking schedule [00:34:00] to my house. Why can I not have food in the fridge ready for their school next school day when they come home to me? Why can I not organize this and organize that and do that?

Why, why, why? And a friend of mine, um, who was one of the ones who was like, yeah, you were definitely ADHD. We were just chatting and one day, and she's very ADHD too. She's a whole family of, um, neurodivergent. We travel in packs. We like to do that. I, she just said, I can't remember what we're talking about, but she said, I remember when I was in my mid twenties, I couldn't wait to be married and living with someone because I would then have a body double.

And when she said that to me, I was like, that's what it is. I had a body double when Bridge. And that's why I was able to do, and I wasn't perimenopausal either, but I, cause I really did do the lion's share of running the house and had the business or the rest, running the home, running the kids around. I mean, my, my then husband wasn't a passive participant, but the nature of his work was.

Um, he, he, he's in place. So, you know, very long, very, you know, um, all that kind of stuff. How many days given the squads he, he worked in and stuff. So, yeah, that was a real epiphany for me. And it was like that, that I've lost that. Cause yes, I've got this. I've got four kids and I've, you know, got this handful of kids around me, but they're not adults.

Kylie Patchett: I've got some spares. It's all good. 

Kirstin Bouse: But they, they, they do not see it as a body double for me, any of them. So yeah, that really also really kind of, it's something that I hadn't been able to explain, um, previously. So, you know, through and through all of this, I'm [00:36:00] going through this massive internal shift of, yeah, I don't think I want the business anymore.

God, who would I be? Who am I if I'm not this? All the questions. I mean, even not being married anymore is a big thing for me. I can't, I'm not somebody's wife. And, you know, and, and that, that's an experience that a lot of people have, regardless of the life stage that they're at. But, you know, for me, I had all of these massive.

Um, events that were really challenging my identity. So yeah, as in, so single parent, not married anymore. Yes. I was in a relationship still am, but we don't live together. So, you know, am I partnered or is it just, you know, how does, what language will I use to find this, you know, not wanting the business needing to step back from being from actually providing clinical work now I've got ADHD.

Things pressed upon me to kind of make sense of, and, you know, all amongst all happening at what I truly believe is a time we do that anyway. We really have to ask who we are, what we, how we want to be, what we want in life. Absolutely. For me, not being, despite having these amazing friends generally, um, and then a whole bunch of friends who were psychs and experienced psychs who know nothing about perimenopause and the shifts, because in my, in my non psych group of friends, they're older than me.

So they have worked. I was more likely to be talking about it. Gotcha. Yeah. But my psych friends tend to be at least eight years younger, if not 10, 11, 12 kind of thing. So they weren't anywhere near it. Um, I'm going to sit back and watch. I know, right. I'm like, allow me to observe. Where do I go to talk through this stuff with somebody [00:38:00] who Can bring that psychological lens to it, because that's just how I am.

You know, I've been a psych for such a long time. I, if I can understand things, I can generally cope. And this was a whole bunch of not understanding this, you know, yes, the physical symptoms, the cognitive stuff. Okay. Once I understood that I was perimenopausal, that made sense, but nobody talks about the site, these subtle, but pervasive.

Logical shifts. And it just really pissed me off, really, really pissed me off. And as I started to move back into client work and working with women at this stage, the other thing that pissed me off is, okay, they're seeing me cool. They've got a psych who's informed about perimenopause. If they didn't have a GP that was informed, I could direct them because I started to know, you know, where they was, 

Kylie Patchett: where do they hang out?

Those unicorns. 

Kirstin Bouse: Find other health disciplines who really knew this space. The nutritionists, the naturopaths. Um, physios. A lot of physios. Physios. Oh. Advertised more as that kind of postpartum, yeah. Um, person, which, you know, I now know because I've spoken with physios to try and educate myself that, you know, they, if they might advertise as postpartum, but it's.

Just as relevant, you know, perimenopause because often, 

Kylie Patchett: yes, 

it's similar, 

Kirstin Bouse: similar, similar, yes. Um, or being magnified preexisting problems, post pub magnified and stuff. So, you know, but where, where are they? And I'm a really persistent person when I get. an idea in my head. Surprise, surprise. How can we find these?

Like, if I'm struggling to find these people to suggest to my clients who need support from other health providers with other areas of expertise, then someone, A, isn't, you know, women out there, A, aren't going to know that [00:40:00] there's this support available to them. within this particular health niche, let alone how to find them.

Because one of the narratives, and I'm, you know, I have lovely GP colleagues, menopause informed GP colleagues. I have a lot for them, but you know what I'm going to say, because I've said this to you. Yep. They are not experts in everything, you know, they absolutely are a critical part of the picture, particularly because they're often the first port of call for women.

And they, you know, like me, I know a bit about nutrition. I know a bit about what type of exercise you're supposed to be doing and all the rest. Yes, but I'm not a nutritionist. I'm not a naturopath. I'm not a physio. I'm not an exercise physiologist. Um, and so the frustration for me is that women out there don't actually know that there are many other health providers that are far better placed to support them in certain areas 

Kylie Patchett: than 

Kirstin Bouse: even, you know, me or a GP.

And the evolution of this Delightful experience

with a range of symptoms that evolve and change over the years that you're going through it. So what you need at the beginning is probably a bit different to what you might need, need in the middle, 

Kylie Patchett: because you don't know, no, you don't know until you get, 

Kirstin Bouse: um, and, and so for me, it was just like, I have, I have to do something about this.

I have to. Somehow find a way to educate women out in the community, that there's lots of other things that can support them to help them on their journey through this stage. It isn't just about seeing your GP, although if that's the pathway you want to take, they are a critical, like if they're great, 

Kylie Patchett: then it's not, you're probably going to [00:42:00] be told, told completely inaccurate information.

Kirstin Bouse: Let's not 

Kylie Patchett: even 

Kirstin Bouse: go there. And I certainly, certainly wanted to find psychologists, you know, who worked in this space. And so apart from the education that I really want to kind of, you know, screaming from the rooftops about the support that's available, beyond the obvious. I also want to support those health practitioners, be able to, you know, stand in their authority and their expertise.

And I want them to, it's like Tinder. 

Kylie Patchett: Yeah. I don't know. Is it left or right? When you like someone I go, whatever. 

Kirstin Bouse: But, you know, I want, I want them to be able to find one another more easily. And yeah, and, and that's why it's like, okay, this is just what I have to do. I have to set up this, this platform. I want it to be national.

You know, people with bricks and mortar, cool, great. You know, telehealth as well. I mean, there's obviously some services that need to be in person and stuff, but yeah, I really, I really wanted to provide a platform with good information, evidence based information, as well as that really lovely kind of blog flavor, as you know, like we're a small, You know, kind of, um, drawing on experiences that we've had ourselves, our clients, you know, clearly de identified, but, you know, sharing stories, um, that, you know, will resonate for women as well as really, you know, evidence based, you know, factual information.

And this, you know, this way of finding health practitioners who have this interest, um, and this commitment to supporting women through midlife. 

Kylie Patchett: Yeah. 

Kirstin Bouse: And part of that, what became really obvious when I did my market research is the, how important it is to support the midlife. This is, [00:44:00] yeah. Yeah. That really, that was an unexpected outcome of my market research, um, a delightful one and kind of the cornerstone of all about her is how can I get you in front of the people you want to be in front of and who you want to help the most, because you've got a couple of decades under your belt in your own discipline by now.

And, you know, you've also got your own experience of this transition and that's how hard it can be combination. Yes. And, you know, it really has attracted, and I imagine will continue to attract those health practitioners who also have that bee in their bonnet that, you know, they, this is the space they want to be working in because they know how awesome it is.

Some midlife women are, Yeah. gotcha. But also know How challenging this period of time is, and they want to make a difference on that individual level. And all of them also in the market research, wanted to be part of something that would have a bigger impact than what they could ever have just on their own. Just that. Yeah.

that's kind 

And so, that's kind you know, the other big Sorry. 

Kylie Patchett: Yeah.

Kirstin Bouse: You know, the other 

Kylie Patchett: thing I wanted to bring to the surface too is, and because I want to get to the psychological shifts, but one of the key things that this midlife brings, and actually I want to get to the disruption piece as well, but from a practitioner perspective, what I love most about the All About Her model is that you've got exactly like you said, midlife practitioners.

They've got this experience under their belts and they're also being driven by a higher desire for autonomy, Contribution based like contribution, true contribution, not like societal conditioned, you know, obligation contribution. Um, they've got the power of their own lived experience, which is huge, but they're also doing it in a way that opens them up to more professional autonomy because they're able to do it in a way that.[00:46:00] 

You, you, yeah, the Tinder, can we use that in your mind? No, I don't think that's quite the right messaging, but it's this beautiful, it's like a win, win, win for the practitioner because they get to do more work with people that they more want to speak with, but they don't have to be, you know, in their own psychology bricks and mortar business necessarily.

And they don't have to be part of a practice if they don't want to be there, they get to do it their way, which I really, really love because. If your practitioner is more happy, more satisfied, more fulfilled. It's only good news for the people on the other end. 

Kirstin Bouse: And I've always operated that way in my group practice.

It was like, if I support my team, well, then they're going to do their best work. Right. Um, when I was moving towards all about her though, I was very clear. I didn't want to replicate the same kind of business model. I didn't want employees. I didn't want independent consultants. So for me, that was a absolute Hard.

No, you know, I needed to come up with a different way of doing this. And, um, then the market research only confirmed that that was going to work for this, for that as well. I don't set their cancellation policy. I don't set their work hours, their days. Um, none of that. They tell me how they want to work and we support that.

Um, now if they, I was saying earlier, you know, I see clients on Wednesday and Thursday. So if a client wants to see me on a Monday, I'm sorry, I don't work then. Nope. That is what they get to say to me. So I guess the downside is if they had a million inquiries for someone who from clients who wanted to see them on a day, they don't want to work well, then I can only help them so much in terms of getting the right people in front of them.

But you know, again, it's a very transparent process as well. I'm really upfront. Um, we're gathering data cause we're still quite new, but we're really trying to gather the inquiries [00:48:00] and, you SEO stuff. Yes. You can get that I can pass on to them so that they're in positions to make decisions, um, about whether they want to continue how, whether they're continuing or whatever they're doing or whether they want to tweak things or whatever it's, it's really very, yeah, it's absolutely choice.

And you mentioned before contribution. Versus, you know, that's not from obligation. And what's really interesting is, you know, the current members all have other clients that I'm sure they love working with. I have, I have no doubt. What is really beautiful about. I guess all about her is that I know that this is the work they want to be doing, like they've put their hand up for it.

And, you know, so it is very much coming from a place of this, not just I want to work with anyone. It's the, yeah, I want to work with this type of, this kind of person at this life stage. So powerful and it is so powerful and it's really, it's really cool to support them to do that, you know, and it's really cool building something and creating something that I can have that confidence that if, you know, for the clients, the potential clients that they're going to be sitting in front of someone who really.

Really wants to be working on these life stage issues. And sure, we were not compartmentalized. So we bring all of ourselves to, you know, particularly in a therapeutic kind of space. Um, it's not that they can't talk about stuff that doesn't seem related to this stage of life. Mind you, everything is related to this stage of life, but yeah, you know, yeah, it's, it's, it's exciting and, um, I'm really looking forward to, um, I know we're only what in September now, and [00:50:00] I'm going to talk about next year, but it feels like the end of the year is fast approaching.

Um, as soon 

Kylie Patchett: as August hits, I am talking about the next year. So you and me, 

Kirstin Bouse: I'm really excited, um, to go into next year with, you know, a lot more clarity, uh, around how I can best support people and really wanting to build the professional community. Um, we, uh, yeah, I just love catching up with my members.

It's a really, it's a great time. Significant part of the model is those kind of relationships that I have with each of them and that, um, that they've built with each other as well. 

Kylie Patchett: Yeah. And I love the fact that because every time I talk to you, like it. I know that supervision is part of the psychology model anyway, but you always shine when you're talking about getting the best for your team, having them have the most satisfaction.

And so you've just transferred it. Yes. It's a different business model, but the same depth of that commitment. And then they get this whole level of education over the top of that. So that not only Are they interested in aware as they arrive, but their awareness and their understanding of how you can actually approach perimenopause from a holistic perspective, because one of the things that I absolutely freaking hate, and we've talked about this.

Ad nauseam is you go into Facebook groups and there's big groups of menopause, whatever. And someone says such and such is not working, or I have a frozen shoulder and everyone's jumping on the bandwagon going, put estrogen on top of it. And it's like, okay. If we were approaching this from a holistic point of view, we would also be looking at what are you still having on your plate or saying yes to that is not sustainable?

How can you approach the frozen shoulder through understanding how your joints and your lubrication changes as you go through this? And [00:52:00] so, Approaching it from that perspective just means that you're not, I don't know, like this is my biggest bugbear with medicine anyways, that we are compartmentalized and you see the eye doctor and the heart doctor and the whatever, and it's like, well, we are one whole individual.

Um, but I just, I love the approach and the fact that building the network means that. You know, if they are working with you or a psychologist, they're also connected by definition to all the other members and that, you know, that you can refer out such a good model. Cause I, especially for me being rural, my first GP experience, but I actually took, literally took Lara Bryden's, um, hormone repair manual.

with highlighter on the pages. And cause I was really my first kind of inkling that maybe it was perimenopause was really more sleep, like early days sleep, and then just stress tolerance. I had F all. And also ADHD diagnosis on top of things. Um, but I took the, the book with the highlight and I took it to a old male white dude.

Who looked at me and went, Oh, you're too young to be anywhere near menopause. Love nine. I, you just need to maybe, maybe try some deep breathing before you go to bed. And I was like, I am going to throat punch you, my friend. Um, cause yeah, rage was a little bit of an issue then too surprised. But I also, the, with the education piece, because.

It's all about her speaking to midlife women, as well as the health practitioners. When we're talking about finding a menopause aware GP, the very first thing is. Do you even freaking know about perimenopause? Cause I feel like we just invented the word in the last five years. I know it's been around longer than that, but in my world, at least it's only been, you know, but then also, as we talked about right at the beginning, we talk about all this physical stuff, but we're not talking about the psychological shifts.

I really want to cover and the disruption piece because your favorite quote. is what if this is [00:54:00] designed to disrupt us? 

Kirstin Bouse: Yes. I think I would have throat punched somebody had they said that to me when I was at my lowest point. So I, I want anyone listening to who is having a really tough time. I definitely want them to, um, I guess hear that.

I know it's a controversial statement and, um, Um, yeah, that they probably had a similar, have had a similar reaction to hearing the statement as I would have a bit of a while ago. But there, there is some rhyme or reason for me to kind of posit that question. Um, and I think, you know, gosh, where, where do we start with this?

This kind of conversation, but other, well, maybe we start with just acknowledging that the many women you, I know you've spoken to the many women I've spoken to, this is not just clients, clients, friends, colleagues, my hairdresser, you know, everybody, everybody I come into contact with my, my one guaranteed topic of conversation.

Um, They, they, you know, we all talk about this deeper kind of experience, um, that we're having in perimenopause that, you know, is often just reduced to mental health issues. Or, the other phrase that I agree with but is so simplistic is, oh, women lose their confidence. During this period of time, and I'm like, okay, yeah, but why let's have a look at why let's not answer that with the age old answer in this narrative, which is because your hormones are fluctuating, like, okay, yeah, and start the process totally get that really on board with that.

Yep. You don't like, I'm not disputing that by any means, but it becomes a circular argument. She loses her confidence. Why? Because of hormones. And she, you know, it takes us nowhere. Um, and yet the most common kind of phrases that I've [00:56:00] heard across all that range of those varied groups of women that I've spoken to are things like, I don't know who I am anymore.

I don't feel like myself. Like myself. Um, and again, I've seen some messaging recently about that particular phrase. I don't feel my like myself. And the next kind of sentences are, well, of course, because you're having hot flashes and you're not sleeping well, it goes back to the physical symptoms. And I'm like, no, there is something far, far deeper going on.

And. You know, I really, really felt that. And I heard that time and time again, when I asked beyond that one question, like when I, when I, when they said, I don't feel like myself anymore, or I don't know who I am anymore, when you actually sit in that space and are really curious and, and ask them as best they can tease it out, talk to me about what that means for you, what you mean when you say that, you know, it's, it's, it's you actually start to really get a much deeper picture of what's going on.

And so again, me being me, I turned to the literature, you know, I'm like, surely there's some research., I started with my own profession, because that made the most sense to me that these are psychological kind of things, like surely. We've got something to say about it.

And very sadly, no, , really, really disappointing. But what I did, I guess I kind of found two sources of information. So one was qualitative, , research where essentially perimenopausal women were asked to just share your experience of perimenopausal, and yes, there would be that portion of the interviews that were about symptoms, but it wasn't But when they were really allowed to continue to talk it, you know, that's when you started to see the depth in the, , you know, in what they were sharing and that research published peer, you know, academic research really revealed a number of themes, , that [00:58:00] just time and again, mirrored what I felt, mirrored what I heard, what I saw.

So what was constantly being brought to the table, , in my conversations, , with people. And so, you know, those, the themes were typically identity shifts in identity shifts in values and priorities. Not wanting to be around children anymore, a really strong drive for autonomy and individuation from the relationships that we've had.

Um, roles have, 

Kylie Patchett: yeah, 

Kirstin Bouse: exactly. You know, uh, having to come to terms again with the changing body, a lot of stuff around body and the fundamental that sound underneath it all was also changed like this, the, the, the big thing that came out was changed in all of these areas and constant until typically post menopause, you know, yeah.

Um, and so for me, like all of that is like, okay, cool. That's what's coming up often. And I was also reading a lot. I was trying to find the books that were also speaking to these dis these deeper things, which weren't as many. And they definitely were not written by anyone in the medical community. They were often far more journalists who, you know, had an interest and interviewed lots of women.

They were feminists, all of that kind of stuff. Yep. So it was a different 

Kylie Patchett: lens. 

Kirstin Bouse: Again, these same themes were coming up. Now. Us as a psych, I look at, looked at those themes and I'm like, I know what this sounds like to me. This sounds like adolescence. Yep. A massive part of our training and the way we make sense of people, um, not the only way, but one that has to, you know, Exist for any person that we're working with is understanding the developmental stage that they're at, what that developmental stage kind of brings to the table.

And there's, there is lots of research in [01:00:00] psychology around the psychological developmental stages. Yes. There's also the gross motor skill and it's all that stuff. Moral reasoning. When does that kind of develop? How does that evolve? Blah, blah, blah. But this is kind of like, we're talking how a person is growing, how a person is created.

You know, those themes that I mentioned before are exactly the themes of adolescence. They are the things that we know are normal for adolescents to be wrestling with, grappling with, struggling with. We also know that the, that struggling with it, And finding their place with those things is critical to the next developmental stage.

We know that lays the foundation. If they don't get to wrestle with these things, which sometimes kids don't because shitty things happen during adolescence. And take them off different trajectories. 

Kylie Patchett: Yeah. 

Kirstin Bouse: Um, and it's very hard to kind of come back onto the trajectory. So we as a society, except, I mean, we all kind of roll our eyes when we think about being, like most of us would say, oh God, I never wanna be a teenager again, 

Kylie Patchett: No.

Kirstin Bouse: How challenging it was. But there's a part, there's a part where we acknowledge it has to happen. It's normal, it has to happen. It lays the foundation for the next stage. And just because of all of that, it doesn't mean that we dismiss it as a piece of cake. We know it's, we know it's challenging. And interestingly, the medical community have started to refer to perimenopause as reverse puberty.

Now they do that. They're just talking about the hormonal kind of picture. Totally get that. Totally get that. But for me and you know, if I could do actually, I don't think I would do my PhD now, I've got more important things to do. I wish somebody would do their PhD in this area, interest, um, research in this area because I 

think [01:02:00] 

This stuff that I mentioned before, these themes are evident in the research for perimenopausal and midlife women.

They are. That's not made up. What I have done in my mind, just cause that's how I roll, which is very in ADHD, I think is I'm sick. I put them into a framework. You make connections that seem so obvious to you, but aren't necessarily obvious. Even to my other colleagues, when I've mentioned it, they're like, oh yeah, wow.

It isn't like, to me, it's smack recognition. It really smacked me in the face. And so, for For me, it so explains the internal upheaval that we are experiencing during this period of life. It totally explains how important and, and speaks to the significance of it. It explains why can't we make some room for it?

We really need to make some space. It needs to be seen as a normal part of our lives. You know, midlife perimenopause and an important part that actually will impact us just like they say, you know, estrogens declining, which puts our bone health at risk and all those things. If we don't do this work, and I can't say this because the research hasn't been done.

So it's not that it, It's disputing 

Kylie Patchett: it. It's 

Kirstin Bouse: just, it 

Kylie Patchett: hasn't been, that question hasn't been asked yet. Yes. 

Kirstin Bouse: I know that all the other developmental stages that we have, and again, I'll bring back to perinatal there's called mattress sense, which only, only is referring to the psychological and the spiritual process of becoming a mother.

Pregnancy speaks to the, and postpartum, you know, speaks to the physical elements of it. Mattress and speaks to the cyclic. And that again, we know when people, when women do these things, that's part of mattress. [01:04:00] You know, then they are more likely to adjust well to well, yeah. 

Kylie Patchett: And make the transition. And also, you did speak to this a little bit before, but I just want to come back to this like adolescence thing in homes and societies where adolescents are best supported through the transition.

They are given space. They are given trial and error, self compassion, more potential tending or, you know, self care. Yeah, more rest. And yet, because we have a conditioned, like, this is the way I'm going to be for the rest of my life, even though we're cyclical beings. But, you know, coming back to like, I always thought I would run a business because that's the way that I always thought it was going to be.

Um, and then we come to this transition point. And unfortunately, if we aren't understanding that these psychological shifts are normal, expected need rest, need self compassion, need space, then what we can do is make ourselves. wrong for putting everything under question or wrong for being selfish or whatever.

Um, and this is why I'm so bloody passionate about sharing what your message is, because it's like, we need to be speaking about this in terms of it is normal. It is developmental. There is stages that you can expect to go through. And so rather than just going slap an estrogen patch on it and off you go.

Because that only speaks to some of the things, and it doesn't work with everyone, and it's not even an available choice for everybody. That if we understand it through the lens of all of the changes, physical, cognitive, emotional, psychological, then we can actually and hold space for ourselves and others in our lives that are going through the same transition.

Kirstin Bouse: It doesn't have to be an either or either. Like, you know, um, I mean, I do. Yes, very good point. How do we get to [01:06:00] adulthood? We don't kind of, We're not a child, child, child, child, child, child, child, and then the next morning we wake up at 18. Ta da! I'm a young adult. You know, there are these really significant, um, you know, there is this interim stage called adolescence.

How do we get to be a well adjusted mum as much as any of us can be well adjusted? I don't know. I couldn't tell you. You can wake up and be a mum but it doesn't mean that you've actually adjusted well. It doesn't mean that you're ready for it in, in, in every way that it means. You know, and everything that, uh, asks of you and how it changes you.

And so I do think, and this is where the disruptive kind of phase come, the phrase comes from is because I think while I don't want to, um, enforce suffering on people, I do believe that these developmental stages. Ages. And this is just one of them that they are designed to be disrupted. They are designed to create unease within us because it's the, you know, none of us like change.

None of us, you know, kind of do, 

Kylie Patchett: but not this sort of change. 

Kirstin Bouse: Change on your turn. Yes, true. Is the disorienting feeling of I don't know who I am and I'm, I'm, I don't have an anchor anymore. I feel completely unanchored. Yes. I don't know who I am. None of us like that. Um, but at the end of the day, it's, it's, it's the discomfort that comes that ideally motivates us to kind of move into this really reflective space and co create Who we want to be and how we want to live our lives as much as we possibly can with the practicalities that yeah, absolutely.

Does that mean that I think women should suffer? No. [01:08:00] And I think this is where it's not an either or sure. I mean, I'm on MHT and finally found something that's 

Kylie Patchett: well, if I could get it, I would be 

Kirstin Bouse: postmenopausal as well, but no, I don't want women to suffer, but you can still And, you know, whatever they can do to support themselves, because I think suffering reduces bandwidth.

Yeah. Reflective stuff requires bandwidth, which is why, you know, you know, in my work, I, I work where women are at. I meet them where they're at. And if they're in crisis, I am not going to be having what I like. Or red wine conversations. I need to be helping them, you know, get out of the crisis. Yeah, of course.

Stability. 

Kylie Patchett: Yeah. 

Kirstin Bouse: Women might come to me and they're not quite so in crisis and, and, um, at risk and things. So we all, all of us need to be met where we're at. And therefore the things we do to support ourselves need to align with where we're at. And for a lot of women, that does mean starting with looking at things like MHT, it certainly means, you know, trying to get as much sleep as you can and rest as you can and eat well, you know, probably reduce your alcohol if not stop, because that just does not happen, go well at this stage of life.

This is your practice. That we can do to increase our bandwidth to then do this deeper work. I feel sad to think though that some women stop with just easing, easing the suffering and don't move into the deeper work and, and I guess that's where I'd love research to. to tell us, is that a big deal? Am I making a big deal out of nothing?

Like, so what? You don't do the deeper work. Does it impact your life later? Maybe it doesn't. I don't know. I certainly know it would for me. Yeah, me too. Yeah, absolutely. [01:10:00] And, um, and I, I guess I've just been doing this psychology gig for too long. That I think there are just times in our life where we are being forced to take stock of who we are and how we want to live in the world.

And sometimes that's forced upon us in terms of an external thing. In this occasion, we're talking about it being forced on us, but it's from an internal kind of, um, and I think people who don't necessarily take stock at the times when the universe, for want of a better phrase, is Is really saying you should here's the invitation.

I think those who don't take the invitation, it, you know, it, it just pops up at another time, another way, probably not in a great way. Um, that's my hunch. I'm really that there's no research to suggest that really just yet, but, um, it's certainly to me, I can't see how this Um, information from the research that, that is out there about it, it's like, yep, okay, this, this is something with a purpose and, um, the purpose is really about, I guess, um, Yeah.

Working out who you are, who you want to be, how you want to live your life and finding that, um, sense of self, that clarity around sense of self and that assuredness in your flawed humanity. Yes. Oh my God. Yes. As okay with that. Cause we all have days where we're not okay with ourselves, but as okay with that more often than not, as we can, and taking that into this next half of our lives, um, is a Third of our lives, whatever, however, however long we end up living for.

Yeah. It's it. Yeah. That's the message that I want to get out. Yeah. 

Kylie Patchett: It's so, it's such a powerful thing. And I think the more that we have these conversations, because my [01:12:00] intention behind sharing any story is hoping just to make connections or raise awareness or have people see themselves and other people's, you know, stories.

And I think, um, and we've talked about this before, like I, I. literally was brought to my knees, um, at this juncture point. And now what am I now? I'm just about to turn 50 in January. So it's almost three years ago. Now I can look back and go, thank God I was brought to my knees because it forced upon me to really look at what I had the resources to actually want.

Um, need, desire, what my essentials were, what my non negotiable knows were, like, not, not available for that anymore. And I have a much more deeply satisfying life that I absolutely believe is setting me up for 

success. 

Yeah. The new, the next phase, the next, you know, the next, um, part of the journey, which is not driven by estrogen, which is, you know, all about, as we often say, accommodation and servitude.

Like that's, 

Kirstin Bouse: you know, haven't even mentioned that. And I, and I think, you know, the disruption, you know, the purpose is, To really go deep and, and do all the things that we've talked about. And I think at the same time, this apart from the fact that it's all triggered by this hormonal carry on and all the other thing we can thank our hormones for.

Is that as that hormone of accommodation and servitude declines, which is oestrogen for those who, it has an evolutionary purpose in buckets so that we care for others, prioritize others, but as we decline that inclination to do that, and I'm talking the, the grind of caring for others. I'm not talking, which you referred to before, about that kind of, um, desire, generosity from a place of [01:14:00] generosity.

Kylie Patchett: Mm-Hmm. , 

Kirstin Bouse: you know, as that hormone, um, declines, it does give us, I think, a bit of a kick, a bit of courage, a bit of fis Mm-Hmm to, to actually start to implement the things that we want and we start to move from a place of, I have to be this woman. I into, well, hang on, this is how I want to be. And this is what I want to do.

And I can do it just because I want to. I don't know. There's no rules against that. Hang on a minute. What? Yes, we have to find the justification for I think as women. And I think it helps that losing the oestrogen helps us, um, you know, somehow provides a foundation for us to be more comfortable in asserting ourselves.

Yeah, absolutely. Not just our needs. Yeah. And so, yeah, that's, this is, this is the. Concoction, you know, the recipe of this stage of life. And, um, wouldn't it make a difference to the narrative when we're always talking about how cool would it be if we could change the narrative about us, for example, I know lots of people having these conversations, trying to change the narrative so that we can see aging for women in particular as a really positive thing.

And, um, I feel that this needs to be, can be part of that conversation. Um, and it only just kind of makes that, that shift in perspective, more robust, you know, gives them substance. Exactly. 

Kylie Patchett: Yeah. As we're talking, the other thing that we, we haven't, I haven't got time to explore fully, but something that I just want to kind of earmark probably for the next episode is that when we are talking about the, like we are estrogen driven to date, make procreate and then take care of.[01:16:00] 

That is just a fact. Um, when the Eastern starts to fall on that accommodation, like the veil, the veil starts to fall and you find yourself looking around going, what the fuck was I doing? Which was my experience. I know not everyone does that. Um, the, the thing that naturally came to be for me was questioning the roles and responsibilities.

Like. Hang on a minute. Who did make this my job? You did say that I had to do this. Who did have the unconscious contract to come back to what we were originally originally talking about. Um, and whilst that is deeply discombobulating to be asking all those big questions, um, it absolutely is for a purpose.

And I now look back like I was, I. I was thinking back to the very first episodes of this podcast. That's two full years ago. And I was still struggling, like really struggling. And the whole reason I started the podcast was to talk to other women who were in the middle of, or post transition so that I could use them as life rafts, like literally, like that was the whole point.

I mean, I love interviewing people, of course. Um, but now looking back, I'm like, Oh my God, all that discombobulation was the perfect breeding ground for, yeah, bringing the fire back and getting clear. And I think that that's That it's never a bad thing. And also there is absolutely real resistance from the people around us, potentially, when we start to challenge those things.

I remember one particular conversation I had with my youngest daughter, and now I look back and go, Oh my God, that whole conversation was. Her being 16 and needing the independence and me being 47 and going, screw you, you are not, you know, like basically, and we had a massive argument. She left home at 16 and I was like, Oh my God, this is the worst thing in the world.

In the, in the fullness of time. You know, it could have gone either way, I'm sure. But in the fullness of time, I'm, I'm grateful for having the ability to stand [01:18:00] my ground and also having a kid, even at that age, be able to stand her ground and actually get her needs met. And she knew she wasn't going to have it in a house where her mother was like, No, this is the line and she's like, well, I don't like your line.

So I'm leaving, but you know, I can see now with the ability of hindsight and looking back across a couple of years of just going, Oh my God, it was just all. Perfect. And then I also see my friends who had kids a lot later and they've got little primary school. Anyway, I just think, thank God I didn't do that because I don't know whether I would be coping.

I don't think I would. Anyway, that is a whole other conversation. We are going to have to tie up. We could talk forever, but Oh my goodness. Keep going. Thank you. Um, now where can we find all about her center for both the midlife clients? And also if there's, Health practitioners out there going, hang on a minute.

Some of this is speaking really loud to me. 

Kirstin Bouse: The website is allabouthercenter. com. au. I've got two Insta accounts. So all about her center, as well as the midlife psychologist is mine. And, um, I'm also on LinkedIn as 

Kirstin. 

So I do seem, people seem to find me there as well. They do. They 

Kylie Patchett: do. And you've got lots of podcast, podcast episodes, um, and a really good blog and yeah, heaps and heaps of resources.

Yeah. Yes. so much. I'm so glad timing. Congratulations again. 

There you go beautiful one, another delicious, juicy, truth talking episode with a Disruptor, Rebel or Revolutionary sharing the identity shifts. And the mess and the magic of leading right on the edge of your expansion and going first as a visionary leader, as a woman, creating a business and inviting people to completely new ways of learning, living, loving, and [01:20:00] leading.

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